Real life Mama Amy on ovarian cancer, IVF, birth trauma and her downfall brought on by the sleep training industry
Amy is a mama from my Mama Matters Academy who has a helluva story to share with us. Please reach out if her story resonates with you. Follow on Insta @mamamatters.au I'll love you forever if you leave a review and subscribe to the poddy!
Hey Mama, I have a Sleep Guide for you! For birth to 18 months, this guide is steeped in evidence and laced with compassion. And you can download the first chapter absolutely free HERE.
Are we Insta pals? If not, why not? Come and hang out at @mamamatters.au!
As always, thanks for being here- if you enjoy this poddy I would LOVE if you could give a rating and a review. It means the world to me.
xx
TRANSCRIPT
Fiona Weaver 00:09
Hello love and welcome to the Manage chatters podcast. If you're keen to ditch all of the parenting shoulds and want to uncomplicate sleep and parenting, you are in the right place, through honest conversations with experts and each other, we will help you to cut through all of the noise and to love the heck out of your imperfect and authentic parenting. I'm Fiona, a social worker by trade. Now supporting families with sleep and parenting through my business mama matters. I'm passionate about parenting psychology, biologically normal infant sleep and infant mental health and attachment. I'm also a parent, and I am on a mission to normalize the shitshow that can be parenthood.
Fiona Weaver 00:48
I know that right now you might be trapped under a sleeping baby. Or maybe you've got your headphones in to soften the blue of the afternoon witching hour, wherever and whoever you are, I want you to know that you belong here. Now, let's have a chat.
Fiona Weaver 01:05
Hello, my love's I hope you're well, I have a chat today with one of my moms from Mama matters Academy, Amy. She is a real life mama of one little boy who is now seven months old. But she has a hell of a story. And I know that you are going to love hearing about her journey, we chat about her journey into motherhood and also just how the sleep training industry really took her to a really dark place. And I'm so grateful to her for sharing her story so openly and vulnerably. And she is a really, really amazing example of coming out the other side as well. So I'm so pleased to have Amy here, I will let her tell your story, her story now. And I will just let you know that my sleep guides are this close to being released it is for zero to 18 months. It is a low cost, high value PDF guide for everything sleep in the first 18 months. And they are so close. So you'll be hearing from me over the next couple of weeks as to when they are available. But I hope you enjoyed this chat as much as I did and reach out if you have any reflections. Hello, Amy, welcome to the podcast. I am so happy to have you here. Thank you so much for having me. I feel very privileged privileges all hours. So I met Amy, when you were back in my mama matters Academy a few months ago. Hey, and we have connected a lot since and we have quite a story to share. So let's get started by introducing yourself who is Amy. So I'm Amy, I am a first time mum to a little seven month old Bob Hudson. I'm a wife to my partner, Scott. We're actually just about to celebrate our one year wedding anniversary in a few days.
Amy 02:51
I live in Western Sydney. And then aside from you know, being a mom and a wife, I'm also a primary school teacher. So currently having a bit of time off, but definitely missing that creative outlet. So looking forward to going back to some capacity next year. Yeah, that will be exciting. Yeah. And so we're gonna just go through your entire story here. Well, let's take it back to when, when you were thinking about having a baby like what does that look like over the years? Have you always wanted to be a mom, or what has the journey been there?
Amy 03:26
I've always known that I wanted to be a mom, I could always see it in my future. When I was younger, I battled ovarian cancer when I was 13. So in the process of you know, going through chemo, and I unfortunately lost an ovary during that whole time as well. Fertility was always sort of something in the back of my mind, you know, doctors were very optimistic thinking, okay, you know, you survived the cancer, you're in remission. We don't know what the likelihood is of you being able to conceive, but you know, we have high hopes. And just, you know, come back when you're ready, and we can explore different options if you need to. It was probably about three years ago, now, they actually had found a secondary tumor on my remaining ovary. So in the process of removing that, thankfully, it was benign, but I did lose more of that ovary as well. So I only really have about a three quarter one left. So, you know, having the conversation with Scott, we both knew we wanted to be parents and we had to go through some egg preservation just in case. Unfortunately, the likelihood of a tumor returning it is quite high, whether it's benign or malignant. So we had to store some little embryos, just in case, you know, put away for a rainy day in case I'm going to need them. But yeah, I always knew that it was going to be challenged. Gene. But I've always felt very optimistic and positive about the whole thing, as well, you know, I knew that it was going to happen for us in one way or another. So, and we're here now. So we have a little beautiful baby boy.
Fiona Weaver 05:15
So take me back to getting a very intense sort of 13. Like, what did that look like for you? That process?
Amy 05:25
Yeah, look, it was pretty horrendous, you know, to go through an illness like that at such a young age, especially one that was affecting all of my hormones, as well, you know, at a time in your life, where you're peak puberty, and you're, you know, trying to discover who you are. So I had had some on, I guess, misdiagnosed symptoms for a couple of years that really mimicked those of a young girl going through puberty, you know, I was bloated and fatigued and yeah, like quite lethargic all the time, and seemed to have a lot of cramping. And the doctors would say, you know, you're 13, you're about to go through, you know, puberty, you might get your first period, or whatever it may be. And it just never happened. My symptoms got progressively worse until my tumor had actually grown to the size of a watermelon in my stomach. And what, yeah, it was huge. It was so I had to end up getting cut from hip to hip, to remove this tumor. But the way that we found it was the tumor was covered in CES, which we later found out I have PCOS. So this tumor was covered in CES and one day, the CES bursts, and it actually ruptured the entire tumor. So they rushed me into emergency surgery, thinking it was appendicitis, or there was something else going on. And when I woke up, they had to tell us that they had found this tumor at that stage, they were very confident it was benign. But in the process, I was cut from hip to hip. So I had this massive scar across my abdomen, and they had to obviously remove one of my ovaries because it had grown over the top of one. And it was about 10 days later after they had done all of their biopsies that they realized it was a very rare form of ovarian cancer. So then the whole whirlwind of you know, chemotherapy, and all of that kind of started. So it was a very stressful time on on my family and I for sure, but I was lucky I didn't have to have chemotherapy for super long, it went for about four, four and a half months. And the medication didn't work as well as they were hoping in the beginning. But you know, thankfully it it was all removed. And I was put into remission later that year, which was really good.
Fiona Weaver 07:56
Wow, I cannot believe there was a size, a tumor the size of a watermelon. I thought you were gonna say the size of my ovary?
Amy 08:05
No, no, it was huge. And you wouldn't have known I mean, looking in photos, I didn't look overly like tabi or anything like that. So you really wouldn't have known that it was in there. So yeah, the doctors. I remember they took photos of it and showed us because they were so mind blowing. There was a photo of the tumor next to the surgeon's hands. And I mean, surgeon's hands are usually quite big and look tiny, tiny next to it. So yeah.
Fiona Weaver 08:35
Wow. Did they go in to surgery thinking that they were removing your appendix? Or had they done scans and seen that there was something in there before? Because it sounds like you went into surgery thinking you had appendicitis?
Amy 08:47
Yeah, they thought it was because I was screaming and pain from the cysts bursting. And then the tumor rupturing. They thought that that pain was my appendix. So they went in thinking that they were just going to have to do keyhole surgery. And like, I think my poor parents thinking their daughter's been rushed into surgery, thinking it was appendicitis, and then the doctors having to come out and say, Oh, no, actually, this is what we've found. So yeah, it was a very, very surreal experience, I think for everybody. But
Fiona Weaver 09:18
yeah, such a big thing for a 13 year old to navigate. Like, how did that play into your social relationships and your own maturation and things?
Amy 09:29
I think I struggled to connect more so after, you know, I was putting in remission, I was really struggling emotionally dealing with everything that had just happened. And I think because it happened in such a short period of time, I didn't really get a chance to to process it properly. So then when I was finally you know, trying to come to terms with what had gone on, I really felt a disconnect to a lot of kids that I went to school with because they were just you know, going to high school I'm doing things that teenagers do. And I felt like I was just at a different place and a different mindset. Thankfully, I connected with canteen at the perfect time and you know, got to meet lots of other young kids that had either battled cancer or a family member that had gone through it as well. So that kind of brought me out of my shell a little bit, forming those relationships and getting that emotional support that I didn't have. When I was sick. I was treated in an adult hospital. So there was, there was nothing really for me for that emotional support. But yeah, right.
Fiona Weaver 10:37
You just kind of stuck stuck there with the adults.
Amy 10:41
Pretty much. I mean, I was very spoiled, like all of the nurses were like, being mums, and they just wanted to, you know, look after you, and even all the, you know, elderly people that were getting treated. They were always super friendly and kind to me, so it was great. I will admit, yeah, it was good.
Fiona Weaver 11:01
It must have shaped who you are now, like, that's such a huge experience.
Amy 11:07
I think so it definitely. It definitely gave me a better mindset and gratitude for life, especially, you know, remembering things that I have gone through. And I think just appreciation for everything my body has gone through, you know, not only just having this tumor, but you know, going through chemo, and then all of the complications that have arisen in my adult life. I'm so grateful that, you know, my body has survived all of this.
Fiona Weaver 11:34
Yeah, it's amazing. Hey, yeah. So tell me the process of how you got pregnant.
Amy 11:42
Well, it was a little bit of a fluke, I must say we were very lucky. But you know, like I said, before Scott and I, after they had removed more of my ovary because they found a second tumor. This was about three years ago, we decided, okay, look to play it safe. We're just going to freeze some embryos. And you know, we'll keep them for when we need them. And at that stage, they did say that the likelihood of falling pregnant naturally was going to be quite difficult for us.
Fiona Weaver 12:14
So did you did you have the like, were you working with a fertility specialist throughout all of this? Or was this just through your GP or
Amy 12:21
this was through the GP. So when they found this tumor, which really was a fluke that we found it as well, I was noticing a lot of changes in my cycle. They were super irregular. I knew I had PCOS. So the cramping and stuff was quite normal. But I went to go get my regular 12 month ultrasound checkup. And no one actually called me with the results. And it wasn't until one day I had the most horrific cramps, I went back to the doctor. And they were like, I can't believe no one has called you about this, we've found there's another tumor in there. So obviously, I went back into oh my god, it's cancer again, I'm going to have to find an oncologist. And it took a while for us, I think to find the right specialists, because for the first time, I felt like my health was resting on my shoulders is my responsibility. You know, as a child, my parents bought me you know, they wore that for me, and going to all the right doctors and appointments. So it took us a long time. I remember we wanted the gynecologist that we sold this is before they removed the tumor, we were just trying to get some advice around, especially fertility thinking, okay, for another ovary has been affected. What can we do to try and save something before you remove this tumor? And I went in and she said to me, Oh, well, did you even really have cancer when you were younger? And I said, Yes, you can see it on my forms that I did. And I had a page of questions I wanted to ask her and I said, you know, if when you remove the tumor, if you have to remove the whole ovary, what do I do about ever wanting to have a baby? And she was like, well, we just use donated eggs, like was just so I guess like blase about the whole thing. And I'm thinking in my head, this is a very, this is a big deal. If we have to go down the eight donation route, no problem, but if there is a possibility of preserving what I have, first, isn't that something that you would want to explore?
Fiona Weaver 14:31
So who was who was this gynecologist?
Amy 14:35
She was a gynecologist. Yeah, that's a terrible experience, isn't it? Oh, it was. It was awful. But thankfully we had that experience because then I got in contact with the head of a fertility clinic in Sydney. And he made time for an emergency appointment for us and I think he sat down with us for mastering, you know, two hours or so going through the process and really listening to As you know, my fears and concerns around fertility, obviously, the number one concern was making sure I didn't have cancer again. And then if we could preserve something in the interim, fantastic. So he put me in touch with an oncologist who specializes in, in females. And I think because of my history, he just wanted to make sure I was in the right hands. And thankfully, she was amazing. She was great. As soon as I met her, I felt like, Okay, I'm at ease now, like, I'm in the right hand, she's going to look after me. So in that whole process of removing that tumor, they did have to remove a little bit more of my ovary, just because of where the tumor was they needed to, you know, cut a little bit of it out, unfortunately. So that kind of then kicked us into the drive thinking, Okay, we need to free some eggs, just in case.
Fiona Weaver 15:58
How are you at this point? And like, what stage of the journey were you in? Scott?
Amy 16:04
We definitely at that time, weren't ready for a family just yet. You know, we, we weren't engaged. We didn't have our we were, you know, saving up for a house, we really wanted to build a house. So that was our goal at the time. So I would have been so it was three years ago. So I would have been 26 just turned 26 got in touch with an amazing IVF specialist who a family friend had actually seen several years before, and they were blessed with beautiful babies from him. So went to him. And we started pretty quickly because obviously, you know, anyone that's gone through IVF it is a very finicky complex procedure. It's basically down to the day of your cycle that you have to start all these injections. I was also seeing a naturopath at the time to kind of help with some side effects that I was having with PCOS.
Fiona Weaver 16:58
Can you just explain PCOS is for people who might not know polycystic ovarian
Amy 17:03
syndrome. So it's basically where my body's prone to producing cysts all over my, you know, uterus, ovary, everything. So yeah, they're quite usually they're quite manageable. But sometimes you have a flare up and you can feel extra cramping and things. I think symptoms are a little bit different for everyone, but me I feel sharp pain, or cramping sort of at odd times during my cycle. Yeah. So I went through the IVF. And thankfully, we were blessed with four embryos at the very end. But, you know, that process in itself was probably one of the most emotionally and physically taxing experiences. You know, aside from obviously, going through chemo, when I was younger, that, for me is a very distant memory. But as of right now, that whole journey of you know, you're going for a scan one day, and I had no follicles, so they would have to then up my injection dosage. And I'd go back several days later, and he'd say, you still don't have any follicles on your ovary. So there's no guarantee that you actually have any eggs. So it was extended by a couple of weeks, I had to be put on extra medication. And you know, what it does to your body and your mind through the whole thing. It's, it's awful. So any of my heart goes out to anyone that has to do that multiple times, I really struggled. We were left you know, with a fantastic, you know, ending we had some very great little embryos that we could fertilize. But yeah, it was quite full on, we just needed to sort of get through it. So we knew that we always had a backer, we didn't know what would happen if I would end up having more tumors or more surgery. So once they were put on ice, and we could kind of then move on to I guess everything that we had planned, we were in the midst of saving for a house. How
Fiona Weaver 19:07
long did that whole process take from starting that IVF journey to having the embryos are nice.
Amy 19:13
It's I think it was maybe a month and a half my cycles are quite long, and they usually go for the whole length of your cycle. So it was about a month and a half I think from start to finish. And that I think we finished that it was peak COVID in 2020 When that happened, like in the June July period of time. So once you know they were there we went on with with our business so we started we were still saving for a house and we actually got engaged a couple of months later. So our focus then went from Okay, well we'll build the house we'll get married and then we'll focus on having a baby. And then last year, going into peak, you know locked down again I was experiencing some really horrific abdominal pain and went back to the doctors thinking that, you know, I could, it could just be another cyst flare up, or you know, I hope it's nothing more sinister. And they'd actually found through some ultrasounds and scans that my uterus had actually flipped backwards. So it was now I guess, horizontal, like it was lying quite flat. And my endometriosis, which I only really just found out about maybe a month before that,
Fiona Weaver 20:36
just say, Yeah, gynecologist dream.
Amy 20:42
I know, oh, my goodness. So the endometriosis had basically caused all the scar tissue around because I'd had so many abdominal surgeries in my life, the scar tissue and the endo don't really blend well. So my ovary that was left actually attached to the side of my uterus, causing a really small kink in my fallopian tube. And I straightaway was on the frame to my IVF doctor, and I said, like, I don't, what do we do? Do we operate and fix it. And he said, at this point in time, the way that your uterus is, if we leave it, and it doesn't change, you will not be able to conceive naturally. And I don't know the possibility of you being able to carry a baby because of how its positioned. And then he said, but if we go in and operate, and there are complications, you may lose everything. So I was at a point where it was like, what option? Do I have that and it was kind of just leave it to see if it because these things can settle on their own, and you know, they can revert backwards. So I was going to acupuncture and doing everything that I could to really help ease the endometriosis to then hopefully move things around a bit better. But at that stage, it was like, Well, you know, I'm, we're probably going to have to use the embryos. We were getting married in, I think four months later. So we'll like we'll just see what happens until the wedding. And then after that, we'll focus on this. And, you know, after one too many cocktails one night in the middle of lockdown. I was like, Well, I can't pull pregnant anyway. So it is what it is. And six weeks later, I weighed on a little steak and there was
Fiona Weaver 22:27
oh my goodness, what was what was that initial reaction?
Amy 22:31
I was like, oh my god, like surely not, I actually recorded my reaction because through our whole IVF journey, we kind of kept like a video love to then hopefully one day look back on and be like, Oh, look how far we've come. And I was like, Maybe this before when I had already taken the test. And I hadn't looked at it. And I thought this could be something it could be maybe the start of showing how long it takes for us to fall pregnant or it could be something else. I just had this instinct. And I set up my phone. And as I look do you literally see the look on my face? I'm like,
Fiona Weaver 23:09
Oh my God, you have to share it with us.
Amy 23:11
I should I should come by. Yeah, no. 100 was it? I am. I looked at and you see my face. I'm like looking around going. Oh my god, Surely not. And then in my head, I'm thinking, oh my god, the wedding is in a couple of months.
Fiona Weaver 23:22
Oh, yeah. Like,
Amy 23:24
like, am I gonna fit into my wedding dress? Yeah, it was. But then like, straightaway, I just was overwhelmed with just so much joy and happiness. Like I couldn't believe. I just didn't believe it. It didn't it felt too good to be true. And yeah, it will. Yeah, by far how amazing. Amazing. Yeah, amazing experience. Scott, however, had a very different reaction.
Fiona Weaver 23:52
Did you record his two?
Amy 23:54
I did record his actually. And he was like, Oh my God, you can never show anyone. I don't think he was like, he just didn't have that overwhelming because I think for so long. We thought we wouldn't either never gonna have a baby or it was going to be so hard for us. And, you know, miracles happen. And this was a miracle that even my doctor when I told him my IVF doctor, he didn't he couldn't believe it. He was like, really? Oh my God really? Yet. He was so beyond shocked that had happened the way that it did. So yes, Scott's reaction was a little bit. It's quite funny now to watch back. But at the time, I was like, Oh my God, he's not. He's not jumping for joy. He's not excited,
Fiona Weaver 24:36
really, to raise his baby on my own.
Amy 24:40
So yeah, so I ended up being I was 17 weeks pregnant at the wedding. And that's actually where we did a gender reveal
Fiona Weaver 24:48
at the well hack you. But what did it mean for your uterus?
Amy 24:54
It means that somehow it had corrected itself. Wow. somehow by itself, yeah, because, you know, through all of my pregnancy scans, I never noticed that it was flipped the wrong way. So clearly it had obviously corrected itself in the space of a couple of months, which they say is it can happen sometimes. But I've just been having a really bad, endo flare up or something, to cause everything to kind of contract. And yeah, and I had no issues at all throughout the whole pregnancy with my uterus
Fiona Weaver 25:31
with how was your pregnancy overall?
Amy 25:34
Overall, it was actually, I was very lucky, I was sick for the first trimester for sure. Just nauseous and exhausted all of the time. But I actually I loved being pregnant. I love obviously, aside from the fact that towards the end, you feel huge, and you know, everything is swollen, and you're just so uncomfortable. But I loved I loved my pregnant body, like just, I was in awe of what my body was doing. And I just felt, I felt beautiful. And I felt, you know, amazing. And I was very lucky that I wasn't as sick. I have girlfriends that were horrendously sick throughout their whole pregnancy. So they probably have a very different experience. But I had was very, very lucky. I will say, unfortunately, when it was coming to the end of my pregnancy, you know, my obstetrician was quite concerned with how big Hudson was getting, you know, all of the measurements kept saying that he was looking to be quite big, and my pelvis, she was worried about how I would go delivering him. So we did have to have an induction. I was at 39 weeks.
Fiona Weaver 26:50
I was wondering about that with all of the abdominal surgery you had to had, whether they would support the vaginal birth, or you would need cesarean.
Amy 26:59
Well, I ended up having to have an emergency cesarean, but they they were very optimistic about a vaginal birth. And I wanted to give it a go if I could. And I got through, you know, maybe six hours of contractions, finally got an epidural to feel human again. And finally rest thinking, oh, you know, I can just have a little snooze for a couple of hours. And they said, Yeah, he'll be here by lunchtime. And this was maybe five hours away. And so Scott, and I finally could just like sit back and relax for a second. And my obstetrician was monitoring Hudson's heartbeat from home. And she said that it was the quickest she's ever driven to the hospital when she saw what was happening to him. So it was maybe within an hour I was rushing versus Aryan. He's his heart rate just wasn't coping with, with my contractions, and I think he was trying to descend, but because of what how my pelvis has shaped he just couldn't. So we got to meet him a lot quicker than we thought. But even I must say, as scary as it is being wheeled in to theater versus Aryan, it was it was still a beautiful experience. Yeah, but to meet your baby for the first time in them, you know, show him over the little sheets. It was Yeah.
Fiona Weaver 28:21
So you felt quite positive about the experience overall, you felt supported and held at
Amy 28:25
the time? I definitely did. But I think in on reflection, a lot of my struggles in that early postpartum, I think I think I was holding on to a lot of birth trauma, because I felt quite guilty. You know, did I ease into having an induction too easily? Or, you know, having the epidural? Did I, you know, you're constantly thinking, you know, where my actions or decisions a result of maybe why I had to have an emergency cesarean or so I think at the time, I definitely felt supported, but I haven't harvested a lot of guilt afterwards, I think. But I have to just tell myself as as hard as it was, and if I would do things differently. So be it. But at the end of the day, I still got I got my beautiful boy.
Fiona Weaver 29:17
Yeah. And you did what you could with the information you had at the time as well.
Amy 29:22
Yeah, that's right. You know, and I must admit, you know, I was very, I felt very well looked after in my obstetricians hands, you know, she, you know, she knew my my plans and my hopes and wishes, but I trusted her in every decision she thought that she needed to make, and I wouldn't change any of her now, because, you know, my safety and his safety were the number one priority and we both, you know, we got through it as best as we could.
Fiona Weaver 29:51
So what was that point in that in your postpartum journey when you looked back and thought, oh, maybe I am holding on to a little bit of that.
Amy 30:01
Yeah, it was probably only a couple of months ago, or maybe even a month ago, when I started regularly seeing someone to cope with how I was feeling postpartum. And, you know, we were talking about, you know, my experience with pregnancy, my experience, you know, with the birth, and as I was talking about it, I started getting really emotional. And it took me by surprise, because I didn't think that I would be so emotional talking about it. But, you know, upon reflection with her, and, you know, she said, It's so common for mothers to feel guilt around, if the birth doesn't go the way that they wanted it to, or, you know, they feel their body has failed them. And I think that's how I definitely felt that, you know, I had failed my body or my body had failed me. And it didn't go the way that I wanted. But I have definitely learned to accept it. Now, as you know exactly what you said, I did the best that I could, with the information that I had. And stop, I guess, blaming myself thinking that I had any control, because at the end of the day, you don't really have control over what happens.
Fiona Weaver 31:11
And did you hold on to a lot of a need to just be grateful, because this is such a miracle? Like, I just should be happy that he's here. Yeah.
Amy 31:19
100%. And, yeah, I think I think that goes, you know, anyone that has gone through fertility struggles, or maybe uncertainty around whether or not they can have a baby, I think, you know, going through everything that I did in those early postpartum days, I always suppress how I was feeling because I felt like, I couldn't talk about it without feeling judged. I was ashamed to be struggling the way that I was, or feeling the way that I was. Because I should just be grateful. I've got everything that I've ever wanted and ever dreamed about. Like, what could I be so upset or so anxious about? And I have definitely taken that on board thinking well, yes, I'm allowed to feel a certain way and still be grateful for my baby. Yeah,
Fiona Weaver 32:13
so Well, what what has that postpartum, looked like for you that take us back from when you first got home from the hospital and those first few months?
Amy 32:23
Look with Hudson, the first, I reckon the first couple of weeks, you're just in this newborn love bubble, and you know, you the way that you are with your husband and your baby like you, it's just you're in this euphoric experience. And it's amazing. It's so beautiful and so special. And you know, when Scott had to go back to work, I was at home during the day all day. And I am very much a perfectionist in every aspect of my life. And I thought, You know what, I'm going to get on top of everything, and I'm going to have the best sleep routines down packed and, you know, I wanted to put in place everything possible to perfect everything. And that's definitely a flaw of mine. And I
Fiona Weaver 33:12
had you always related to that, like, Have you always thought that? Yes, you are a perfectionist, or is this been a reflection in Parenthood in motherhood?
Amy 33:20
No, I think I've always known that I am a perfectionist. You know, in my job in my day to day life, I'm very, everything needs to be done a certain way and going into motherhood even before I had had Hudson I was already looking at okay, well, at this age, they should be doing this. So I'm going to have all of this established from day dot, especially around I think a lot of my issues were around sleep. That was, that was my, I guess my anxieties are and I must say, and had some was about five weeks old. And I remember reaching out to a sleep consultant to ask what do I do? Okay, he's five weeks old. Let's start you know, from now trying to put everything in place. And, you know, I wanted you know, this perfect mum myth that everyone talks about, it is so true. In my head, I wanted to be the mum that had the baby that slept, you know, in his cot on his own in the pram, you know, in the car. I was just very naive about the whole experience. And when I reached out to this consultant, and they gave me all of this advice at a big cost, I must say, I was trying to do everything that they said it was you know, the blackout blinds that cost an absolute fortune. It was the, the white noise the swaddling the you I wasn't even allowed to use the red light. It had to be pitch black so you couldn't even see like a hand in front of your face. It was the shushing and padding, the no feeding to sleep. I was trying everything and of course hasn't been any YouPorn just wanted to be with Mum just wanted to be cuddled, just wanted to be held. And I stuck to basically their advice for as long as I could. I remember, every day I would wake up, and I would dread the day because nothing was working. Everything they told me should work wasn't. And when I would reach out to them saying, Well, I've done everything you said, and he's still not sleeping longer than 20 minutes in his own pot, they said, Oh, well, maybe you're just not doing it right. Or he could be too hot or too cold. Or he could be under Title overtime. And it's like, well, that really doesn't help me like I'm sitting here asking for help and advice. And they're basically just kind of putting the onus back on me that I wasn't doing it properly, or I wasn't following their guides properly. And it just got to the point where I, when I had to resort to contact naps, I was miserable, I was crying, thinking that I was going to create this super dependent baby and I was wishing the time away quickly. So he would wake up and then I could try again in his cot for the next sleep or I spent hours trying to put a very awake baby to sleep. You clearly wasn't wanting sleep when I thought he was I would try and refrain from eye contact if he was awake in the court. Because, you know, you don't want to stir them up or think that it's playtime. Or I think my lowest point was in the space of a whole day. And it was a beautiful sunny day, I had spent six hours in total across the whole day, on the floor of his bed with my arm through the cot bars, padding the mattress trying to get him to sleep. And he was just screaming because he obviously wasn't tired, or he just wanted to be held. And I just said to my husband, I was like I can't do this anymore. Like I wanted to be a mum so bad. But this isn't what I this isn't what I thought it would be. It's so hard. And I'm not doing it right. And Hudson would be better off with another mum, like, the thoughts that go through your heads. It just, it still makes me emotional talking about it. But it was awful. I was in such a dark, dark place. And I was missing out on that blissful time with my baby. Because I felt like I had to meet society's expectations of what it means to be a mom. And I think I think back to that time, I definitely, I'm so thankful that I noticed the red flags when I did and sought out help as soon as I could, because now I have done a complete 180 And the way that I feel, but I was so anxious to ever leave the house or for fear that he wouldn't sleep. And, you know, I was convinced because that's what everything that I was reading all these articles and blogs, and people that are following was saying, well, if they don't sleep during the day, they won't sleep overnight time and then they'll never sleep. And obviously I've come to learn now that that is just so not the case at all. So I was locked up in a house with a screaming baby who wasn't sleeping the way that I wanted him to. And nothing was working. And I just felt like I was failing at everything, you know. And I was really resenting this poor little bob. And I hate saying that I hate saying that out loud that I resented him, but I did because I'm like, why are you not doing what you're supposed to or what they're telling me you're supposed to do. Or you just, I think have this constant feeling of self doubt and failure to the point where it just consumed all of my days. And I said to my husband, you know, I think when my feelings and my thoughts started going towards like Hudson would just be so much better off without me. That's when we both said okay, like I need to go see someone about this. And I had seen the GP who very quickly after, you know, a 62nd survey had said okay, well you clearly have postpartum depression. And to me that was a very big label when we'd had no conversation around, you know how I was feeling or maybe why I was feeling this particular way. You basically just left me with a mental health plan and said like, on you go you need to go find a psychologist to talk to and I remember it was that not a girlfriend of mine had actually forwarded me through one of your posts that you had put up about nap xiety and I as soon as she sent that to me, I was like, oh my god who is this chick? This is exactly how I have been feeling because I just everything that the articles were telling me to do just went against everything I felt to my core about the kind of mum that I wanted to be, I wanted to be the mom that embraced this time with her baby. And I wanted to do the contacts leads, but I just felt like I was doing the wrong thing all the time by trying to follow my natural instinct, so I was suppressing what I wanted to do, trying to follow something else. So thankfully, that is when I started getting the support that I really needed.
Fiona Weaver 40:30
Oh, wow, that just makes me emotional to hearing that because you can see the spiral, can't you in hindsight, you see the spiral happening? And how can how can these people feel okay, about what advice they are giving to new parents? And then and then the audacity? It's because you're not doing it? Right? Yeah, that's where I become unraveled. Yeah, the worst just was
Amy 40:56
when I would reach out for help. And I would say, okay, like, I've followed your guides that cost me a fortune, and they're not working. There was literally like a chart that went okay, is your baby crying? Yes or no? Then follow the next step. And it was bizarre. And when it wasn't working, they were like, Okay, I think you need another private consultation. You need to pay another X amount of dollars for this. And then it's like, okay, well, how about you purchase this instead? So I'd hate to think how much money I threw at these people. But, you know, a desperate first time mom's will do anything to, you know, to try and help in some capacity. But in actual fact, that thing, doing the opposite.
Fiona Weaver 41:40
Yeah, but you want the best for your baby, and you are trying to be an A plus mom and give him the best start in life, because you have read all this stuff about how important sleep is and they weren't developed properly if they don't sleep properly, and it's just absolute shit show. And it just yeah, it no one deserves to be sitting in a room crying in a pitch black room in the middle of a sunny day listening to their baby scream.
Amy 42:05
It's just not it's not worth it. And I, I've started to notice a pattern of everything that I was seeing on especially my Instagram feed, I couldn't believe how many suggested pages would come up sleep training. And you know, for some people, it works great for them, which is fantastic. But there's so much pressure around, you've got to train your babies to sleep it, you know, X amount of years old or months old, whatever it may be. And I suddenly realized that I was just being over consumed with information that really was not helping me at all.
Fiona Weaver 42:44
Yeah, so what did you do? Did you call once
Amy 42:47
I did a massive curl, I remember I just after I had read a lot of stuff that you were posting and I you know, started following people that you had interviewed or recommended and I was like, You know what, I'm just gonna surrender to the contact sleeps and it soon became the, my most favorite part of the day, I'd hop into bed with Hudson, I'd pop my air pods in, I'd watch a movie on my laptop, I might have a snooze with him. And I just realized yeah, like I surrendered into that time. And I did like I did a massive call on my social media and then that's kind of when I signed up to do the Academy with you it came at the best time and through the workshops, and I think just my own personal reflections. Like I said to you, I completely fell in love with being a mom, it was exactly the way that I want it to be from the get go, you know, I I know that it's not always going to be easy and there are going to be so many challenges that that you know, pop up at different times in different stages of his life, but I know that I am the best person for the job for him. And no matter what we come across, I will always find a way to do the right thing by him and I've really learned to trust my natural instincts as a mum you know, whether that means the contact sleeps or the 20 minute nap in the car because I've got to get somewhere or whatever it is. I'm not scared for everyday to be messy. I think I thought then every day needed to be the same and you needed to have this strict routine and it's we do the opposite now and he is such a happy baby.
Fiona Weaver 44:36
That's incredible. I love hearing about the transition like the full one ad and how do you navigate sleep now and what does sleep look like for Hudson?
Amy 44:45
Look for us we've always built a bit of a bit more of a ritual around sleep. So you know when it's time for sleep. We have our little you know, I still love the white noise machine because it just it helps block out If I'm cooking pots and pans or something in the kitchen, but yeah, we still have our like wine down routines. But I contacts that with him, probably from about three months until maybe not even a month ago, maybe a couple of weeks ago, and loved it, whether it was in the baby carrier or in my arms. And slowly, we just started transitioning him into his own bed. And now he's a little superstar sleeping on his own. And, you know, sometimes it might be 30 minutes. And if He seems nice and awake, then he's out with us again, like I don't have this pressure around. No, he has to sleep for an hour for it to be worthwhile, or, or basically, you've got to start again. So we just kind of go with the flow. And our days are messy. And we have, you know, swimming lessons and sensory classes. And they're always at the most inconvenient times during the day. But we just have learned to really let go of the pressure and just follow his cues more than anything, you know, we can pick up when he's tired, and he might need a little cat nap or, yeah, I think just letting down all of that those pressures around his sleep, it has just made an amazing difference.
Fiona Weaver 46:17
And such an incredible difference to your mental health right? Now, my feeling
Amy 46:24
so much better, like I think about that time a couple of months ago, and where I was, and I feel like I'm just a completely different person, I've really found my confidence in being a mom. And I think I just, I back myself a lot more. You know, I might hear someone's opinion or advice and it's always unwarranted. But you know what someone may say, and it's like, well, knowing in my heart, I know what's best for him. And I know what's going to work and I'm not going to make a dependent baby by holding him to sleep or, you know, responding to his cries is not going to make him a dependent baby on me. But yeah, I think I'm just I'm so happy that I made that transition when I did, because I still get to enjoy this time with him as a baby.
Fiona Weaver 47:19
Oh, Auntie bring a tear to my eyes like a beautiful story. And it's such, like you can hear the change in you as well. And the confidence and just the ease is amazing. Yeah.
Amy 47:31
That's not to say some days aren't challenging. Oh, yeah. Especially if he's having one of those days. But no, I, I definitely have completely fallen in love with being a mum to him. And I couldn't be more blessed or more grateful.
Fiona Weaver 47:48
Amazing. So what would you say to somebody who is in the thick of it? If it's you know, even what would you say to Amy back then sitting on the floor of the pitch black room?
Amy 48:02
I would say get up and turn the lights on.
Fiona Weaver 48:04
Open the damn blinds, woman.
Amy 48:07
Yes. Actually, you know what I actually when I had done your first net xiety workshop, I literally went into his bedroom. I had this beautiful nursery that we've made and created for him. And it was just I'd walk in with this like dread because it was so dark all the time. I literally ripped down the threw them in the bin.
Fiona Weaver 48:27
threw them on the fire.
Amy 48:29
Yeah, they have they are gone. They are never coming.
Fiona Weaver 48:32
I think Did you say that was super expensive?
Amy 48:35
They were so expensive.
Fiona Weaver 48:36
Did you have to get them custom or something?
Amy 48:39
No, that would just I just got roped into buying these expensive like outlines. Yeah, that were You were meant to be able to like transfer them to other. They would just customizable to different window shapes and whatever. But yeah, they are long gone now. But I think anyone that is in Yes. And you're in the thick of that period of time, I would just say make sure that you have a good support network. And don't be afraid to admit that you are struggling. I think I felt so ashamed that I was so lucky to be a mom and to have a beautiful healthy baby. I didn't feel like I could share my struggles. I would say to anyone that is feeling that way. Please don't be scared to tell someone that you are struggling because it's not worth it's not worth the emotional toll that it takes on you like suppressing all of those feelings. But yeah, find someone who's going to back you and be in your corner and support you in any way that you need. But just know that there is light at the end of the tunnel and things do get easier and trust your gut.
Fiona Weaver 49:57
Trust you got a big one. Hi Ah, what an amazing story. Thank you so much for sharing with us, Amy. I'm absolutely honored that you would come here and just give us your entire journey. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I know that so many people are going to relate so hard to this. I'll be receiving DMS about it for years to come. I know it. And yeah, amazing. Thank you so much is a Do you want anyone to find you? Or would you like to share your Instagram handle or anything like that? Or you want to
Amy 50:28
look I don't even know what my Instagram actual handle is. But I will definitely give you a link to your through your Instagram. So if anyone would like to reach out I'm more than happy, more than happy to respond.
Fiona Weaver 50:40
Awesome. Thank you so much for your time today. Amy.
Amy 50:43
Thank you so much for having me.
Fiona Weaver 50:45
Thank you so much for listening to mama chatters if you enjoyed this episode, let's continue the conversation on Instagram at MAMA matters.au Be sure to share this app with your family and friends. And don't forget if you liked it, please leave a rating and review wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you again and I will see you next time.
