Laura Rafferty, Author of Rebel Mama on redefining motherhood norms
Laura Rafferty lives in upstate New York with her husband, Justin, and her two sons, Jack and Ben. It’s a perfect place to live for her, as she loves all four seasons and all of the corresponding outdoor activities. Her favorite things to do are running, traveling, cooking and reading. Laura has worked in corporate America for her entire career, but writing a book has been one of her lifelong dreams. Becoming a mother gave her the content and the motivation to make that dream a reality. As an avid reader, research for the book was more of a hobby than a chore. And she shared her journey in the book to give other mamas the support and sanity check that she was looking for!
Getting pregnant and having a baby was nothing like type-A Laura had planned. Tossed completely off balance, and in the midst of a global pandemic, she went from rule follower and spreadsheet organizer to rebel mama by the time her son, Jack, celebrated his first birthday.
Join Laura in redefining motherhood norms through the milestones of getting pregnant, giving birth, circumcision, breastfeeding, sleeping, introducing solids, and all the phases in between. Her story shares what worked for her, and unlike many parenting books, is not meant to be a how to guide. Rather, it is meant to invite every fellow mama to awaken her rebellious side and storm the gates of any modern parenting practice that goes against her instinct!
You can find Laura here: Instagram : @ rebelmamawriteshttps://www.rebelmamawrites.com/
Get the book: https://www.amazon.com/Rebel-Mama-Breaking-Motherhood-Parenting-ebook/dp/B09BZQKW3H
Hey Mama, I have a Sleep Guide for you! For birth to 18 months, this guide is steeped in evidence and laced with compassion. And you can download the first chapter absolutely free HERE.
Are we Insta pals? If not, why not? Come and hang out at @mamamatters.au!
As always, thanks for being here- if you enjoy this poddy I would LOVE if you could give a rating and a review. It means the world to me.
xx
TRANSCRIPT
Fiona Weaver 00:05
Hello love and welcome to the mama chatters podcast. If you're keen to ditch all of the parenting shoulds and want to uncomplicate sleep and parenting, you are in the right place. I'm your host Fiona Weaver, founder of mama matters and through honest chats with experts and each other will help you to cut through all of the noise and to love the heck out of your imperfect and authentic parenting. Wherever and whoever you are. You belong here. Now, let's have a chat
Fiona Weaver 00:37
Hello my love's I have a chat today with Laura Rafferty who is the author of rebel mama. Laura lives in New York with her husband Justin and her two sons, Jack and Ben, and she confesses that she has always been a type A sword, so getting pregnant and having a baby has just completely threw her off, thrown her off balance. She went from rule follower and spreadsheet organizer to rebel mama by the time her son Jack celebrated have his first birthday. Rebel Mama is about redefining motherhood norms through the milestones were getting pregnant giving birth, circumcision and breastfeeding sleeping, introducing solids and all the phases in between her story shares what worked for her and unlike many parenting books is not meant to be a how to guide. Rather, it's meant to invite every fellow mama to awaken her rebellious side and storm the gates of any modern parenting practice that goes against her instinct. I hope you enjoy this empowering discussion today, Laura has a really relatable story. And I know that you are going to relate to it as well, I will share in the show notes where you can find her book. And if you're in the membership, Laura will be popping in with a q&a for our book club this later this month. So I hope you enjoy this chat. Good morning, Laura all the way from New York City. I am so happy to have you on the podcast today.
Laura 01:55
I'm excited to be here.
Fiona Weaver 01:57
We connected on Instagram. So many of my interests aren't like that we connected on Instagram because you were following along and you were saying Fiona basically everything that you share on Instagram is what my book is about. So you have written a book called Rebel mama, which we are going to talk about today. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself, who you're using your family where you're from, and all that fun stuff?
Laura 02:22
Absolutely. So yeah, so I am a mom of two, as as you mentioned already, so I live a little bit north of Manhattan. So I'm two and a half hours north of New York City in the States. And I have a three and a half year old son Jack and a just one year old son, Benjamin. Jack is the inspiration or the material however you want to word it for rebel mama. And I wrote that now it'll be about a little over a year ago, that that's been out and published and have talked to many, many new moms who felt a lot like I did, and the stories that I share in there. Hmm.
Laura 03:06
I would love to speak a little bit about how your experience with your second has been just different to Yes, and what that what the, whether there's anything in the book that you would change or any part of your story that is different now anything like that, but we will start from the start.
Laura 03:24
You talked about yourself in the book as a rule follower, which I really related to because I you know, I grew up as following the rules.
Fiona Weaver 03:34
Can you speak a little bit more to what that means for you and what that has looked like for you over the years and how that sort of came to a head in parenting?
Laura 03:42
Absolutely. So you know, it was a lot of turning on exactly the type of book I wanted to put together and the storyline and the concepts and the one day I was just sort of reflecting on the different topics and as you get into the book, you know, each chapter is a different content area and laughing a little bit to myself about how like as I went into motherhood, I had all of these preconceived notions whether I actually formally read them or they were anecdotal or or just in passing with friends and family but I kind of had this concept in my mind of these these rules. And anybody who knows me knows like oh structure like give her structure and she's she's good to go like if this is the order this is the template this is the way we're supposed to do things. I mean, college
Fiona Weaver 04:31
anyone who would order order everything at the restaurant. Yes. Oh,
Laura 04:35
yeah. Yeah, I
Fiona Weaver 04:36
love people like you.
Laura 04:39
This is overwhelming and confusing for me. You just order what you want to eat. Absolutely. And so this concept of like Laura being a rebel was like so like, laughable that I but but when I like sat down it was like But I'm writing about all these concepts where I thought I knew the rules and I thought I had the rules also organized and like give me struck
Laura 05:00
Sure, and um, I'm good. This is what I'm supposed to do. I got it. So I sort of drafted the idea of rebel mama as a little tongue in cheek and then it It stuck because once I really kind of got the flow going, I was like this. That's actually exactly what I did like I have all people, for me to be a rebel is a little bit comical but then when I stepped back and thought about it, like I kind of rebelled against what society was calling normal. And for me, I was all prepared to follow quote unquote normal until I actually was in the moment for almost everything that I that I talked about.
Fiona Weaver 05:35
So what did what did being a rebel look like for you? What was that? What did that how did that show up in your, in your whole experience of birth, postpartum everything?
Laura 05:44
So it was it was a lot of and I don't know, Fiona if this this is relatable for you or not, but like, I feel like I just have you have one of those like internal compasses, right? So like, what feels right and what feels off. And, uh, for me, it wasn't like, I had this epiphany or this moment, but it was it was just sort of each time or each topic. I'll start with conception, since that's the first chapter in the book. But it's honestly, it's relatable in each of the topics were that was sort of like, oh, this doesn't feel right. Like when in the book, I talk a lot about trying to get my cycle back on track after going off birth control and how my doctor was super quick to be like, Oh, okay, well, we have this drug, it's called Clomid, we'll get you on it, you'll get you know, you got to do you get an ovulation cycle, and then it should jumpstart your cycle. Oh, but by the way, we can only do it three times because like, you really shouldn't be on it that much. But if if you don't get it after three times, we'll talk about next steps. And I was like, Whoa, like, I'm just trying to get a period over here. Like I was really very overwhelmed. But then, of course, the you know, the side of me that had been twice soldiering. My entire life was like, Okay, well, this is what you do you do Clomid for three months, and you follow their protocol, and you'll get a cycle. As you as you read in the book, it didn't quite work out that way. And I ended up pausing the the Coleman anyway, because but it was, it was very evolutionary, like it was very slow. And it sort of evolved with time. But which is why as you get a you know, as as you go through this, and by the time I started writing the book, my son was over a year. So I wasn't writing in the moment I was writing or reflecting. But when I looked back, I was like, I kind of like along the way really had to buck the system, if you will, or stay true to myself is probably a better way to phrase it to the point where I really felt like, okay, maybe this isn't what they they write, whoever the day is, in the scenario want me to do, but I'm not doing this, like this doesn't feel right to me. And that permeated through through birth, there was a lot of interventions that were being thrown at me and the birth in particular for Jack, what threw me was it was just expected that I was just going to go along with it. So it was like, Okay, we're sending you to the hospital, you're gonna get induced today. Not even like, Hey, can we talk about this? So you know, so it was it was a lot of that. Same with circumcision. When when I talked about circumcision in the hospital, they were like miffed, they're like it doesn't you didn't write down about the circumcision? Did you forget to fill that out? We're gonna we're gonna use your circumcising him, right. And so, so many things that were just sort of expected where I really had to find my voice. And so I've never really been labeled as a wallflower. So I just want to clarify, I'm a rule follower, but not necessarily a wallflower. But I did. I had, I had to definitely advocate for myself along the way, things that initially, I thought, Okay, I'll just sort of follow along with the protocol until I was in the moment and it didn't, didn't feel right.
Laura 08:52
So it was really about tuning into what what your gut was telling you in those moments, and then being able to have the strength to advocate for yourself and assert yourself, which is really hard. It is
Laura 09:03
it is definitely really hard. And I didn't do it perfectly. I mean, that's another thing. Like, there were a couple of things when I look back, and I'm like Jesus, like, one of the things that drives me crazy from Jack's birth, and I mentioned it in the book is The Pitocin drip that they put me on after after I had him. And I was so pissed off but in the but I was also like elated, right? I had this new beautiful baby in my arms. And at the end of the day, that's what matters. And I wish I had said something but you know, and I know you you said at the beginning you'd love to hear about my experiences of Benjamin. I went into Benjamin's birth with a less like, Hey, don't do dah dah dah dah dah. And one of the things on there was that so it you know some of this is live and learn. But but another huge reason why I tell my story just for other women who might be in similar situations
Laura 09:51
as I was. So that Pitocin story because if you haven't read the book, you won't know what we're talking about is that you had given birth without Any pain relief? And you said, Can we take the IV out now? Bring any drugs? And then they said, Oh, no, we've got Pitocin. Yeah, so there was no consent around that.
Laura 10:09
No consent on that. And and, you know, I remember signing my life away on forms when I got there. So I'm sure, from a legal standpoint, there was some consent somewhere, but my understanding at the time was the IV was just placed in my hand. And if we need it, you know, if if we need to administer something you're already set up. So I was very miffed and surprised that there was anything flowing through there, because I thought, oh, let's just just unwind this. So
Fiona Weaver 10:35
I can walk around freely. Yeah, that doesn't feel very good. Does it? Know when when you talk about being able to assert yourself and know what feels right, and whatnot, was there a shift? Was there a shift between feeling as though you were breaking the rules, per se? So say, as an example, because you bent shed, which you didn't think you're supposed to do? Because the rules are the ABC on their back in their bassinet alone? Yeah, was there a point where you were feeling like, I'm doing the wrong thing? And what was the shift to? I'm a rebel.
Laura 11:14
So I think a great way to describe it is I don't think I necessarily ever felt like I was doing the wrong thing. But what made me start to get really hungry for information was, okay, so my gut tells me this is not the wrong thing. My gut tells me this might actually be the right thing for me. But how do I, how do I know how to do it correctly? And I know that almost sounded a little contradictory. But I, let's, let's stick with bedsharing for a minute, because it's a great topic. I knew that those rules existed for a reason, right? They weren't just to drive new moms crazy. But I also knew, Okay, this isn't gonna work for me and Jack, like, he's, he's got to be with me. And how do I do that safely and correctly? That was, that was probably the shift for me, which was, I never, I never felt like shameful, in a way. But I also felt like, okay, if I'm going to do this, if I'm going to go against the grain, I got to figure out like, make sure I'm like the the way to do this so that I do keep us safe. And I Tracy, from race, good. I stumbled upon her. And immediately, like in the, in one of my nights of like, 36 minutes of sleep, I bought her. Oh, goodness, I gotta think of what they're called. Now. There's six, six, something I know that science guides or something. Yeah, science said thank you for sleep. They were the sleep series. And I bought them in an instant. And I downloaded them on my phone, and I read them. And I discovered McKenna and a few other names Dr. McKenna, and a few other names amongst them. One of my favorite things about writing rebel model was Dr. McKenna read the book and gave me yes, he gave me an endorsement. If you look on the back of the book, he has a quote on there. He's just so fabulous in so many ways, but stumbled upon him read his book, read anything I could get my hands on. That was That was him. And that was really what helped me with the shift. Because there's, you know, there's a there's a ton of humor and lightheartedness that I portray, because I think we need that to stay grounded. But at the same time, there was such a serious element to it that I really, I wanted to make sure I was doing the best thing for me. And at the time, too. And of course, that permeates through me and Benjamin as well. But I think it was more of a shift from the regard of, okay, so if I'm going to do it this way, let's let's learn about this way. Let's really get ourselves up to speed on this. Not so mainstream way, whatever the case is.
Fiona Weaver 13:50
Yeah, I can relate to your story so much, because I remember feeling the exact same way and that I didn't feel like it was wrong to lay, because it felt so right. Yeah. I had all of this other conflicting information and advice that just was it, there was just no congruency. Yes. It didn't add up and it didn't make sense. And I couldn't just let it go. And I saw so many other people who would just do what they're supposed to do or do what they're not supposed to do, but be okay with it. And for me, I really grappled with that whole push and pull. And for me finding Tracy from race good as well. Was so validating and any of Professor James McKenna's work and yeah, Pinky McKay. We know the same people. It was, it's the most validating and liberating experience to have your gut instinct validated evidence. And then you just want to shout it from the rooftops. Everybody needs to know this information because you can feel so much more confident in how you parent and it doesn't have to feel so bad. Like it doesn't have to feel so hard.
Laura 14:55
Yes, absolutely. I think so. Each chapter of the book has three sets. Djinns The first section is road to rebellion, which is really we call it traditional memoir, right? It's just my story. Then there is a redefining normal section, which is a lot of the data and the facts and the and the science based evidence. But the third section is so intensely named the way it is. And I this is another thing that was you just hit on it when you were talking. It's what worked for me is the name of the section. And it's sort of how I shifted mentalities. But what's so important is, this is just my story. So this is not a guide for okay, this is now the way you do everything, because you are not me, and Jack is not your baby. And so every scenario is going to be so different. What I really wanted was to empower women to do exactly what you just described. And when I described which is, follow your gut, if it feels wrong, it probably is for you, not for everyone. And then go ahead and get your find yourself the connections that you need, the education that you need, the resources that you need, that will help you to your point with the push and pull, because there's so much of that in, in new motherhood. And the thing for me with a shout it from the rooftops is I was like, I can't, okay, I just went through this, like the whirlwind of an experience, I can't just keep this to myself, or share with my close friends. Like, I need to put pen to paper and get this in the hands of as many new moms as possible, not because I think every new mom needs to bed share and breastfeed till their babies to or any of those things, but they need to, they need to understand that it's okay to do what is working for you. And whatever that scenario may be.
Fiona Weaver 16:38
Yeah. And then we are the experts on our babies, lifted advice and wisdom and everything from others. But we have experts on our babies.
Laura 16:49
Yes, you form your own. I think it's great. There's they're like, almost monthly now. They're more advocates for this type of stuff, and more new information coming out. And so I want new moms to think of it more like a menu. And so you pick and choose what pieces you need. And you put your story together. But you if you actually allowed yourself to consume all the information out there, one, you would be totally overwhelmed. And two, you'd be totally confused. Because you can find one person who says the polar opposite of another. And it can it can be really challenging.
Fiona Weaver 17:24
Yeah. You speak about your experience as parenting during COVID isolations really shaping the way that you were able to parent from the heart because you weren't being watched? Yes. Can you speak to that a
Laura 17:39
little more? Absolutely. And you know, it's really interesting right now because I'm, I'm a year postpartum now with with baby number two. And it's just so different. Because we are, you know, I mean, there were masks for portions of his time. And I still got a COVID test when I gave birth to him, but it was not like it was when Jack was was an infant and up through well past this first year. And so I think for me, a lot of the co sleeping, contact napping, breasts, breastfeeding on demand, so much of that was just done in my home. I mean, we really, we weren't leaving the house for so long. And our circle was so small. I mean, it was really just immediate family. It's, it's tough. I mean, COVID was was tough in isolation, when it was really governed and regulated. And you know, you weren't supposed to do anything. But it was even more overwhelming with a with a baby because they're so susceptible to, to, to diseases. So it was just it was very, it allowed me to experience things very naturally. And so I write in the book, I have a full time job naturally involves a lot of travel, which just totally ceased with COVID. So I was really like trying to get myself before COVID hit, mentally prepared for okay, if I have to take a trip, I'm going to have to have enough milk pumped and stored and I'm going to have to have my husband prepared to handle nights and bottles and get everybody ready. And thankfully that never saw the light of day. And I don't even I don't know how I would have handled it. I'm I'm a year postpartum with Ben and I've just declined to travel, if it's come up and people are very respectful of that. But I don't know if I would have been as confident and comfortable doing that with Jack as I now am with Ben. Part of that is because he's baby number two. But part of that is because the world's mentality has changed in terms of requirements and travel. And people are so much more open to remote now. But it was it was a you know if you have to make lemonade out of lemons type of thing I don't ever wish for a global pandemic. But it was such a unique opportunity for my first baby, that we were just sort of I stuck together and, and it was I felt very privileged in a way because I wouldn't have been a stay at home mom, I would have been in an office working. And that was an opportunity for me to really be able to focus more on letting things be organic instead of more structured, and I pretty much put the pump in the closet. As soon as we were, we were on lockdown. And I, we can get into baby number two at another day, but bottles don't even work with him. But it really it's just it's was it was a much more natural experience. And from a judgment perspective, I didn't even really like I didn't really have to think about it like, Okay, I'm going to contact nap with him right now. Because why not? He's gonna be a pain. Right? He's gonna be a pain in the ass about trying to get him in his bed his bed, so I'm just gonna hang out with him. And I actually wrote the majority of rumble mama, either at night when he was sleeping next to me or during contact apps. So I was I was productive.
Fiona Weaver 21:08
Yeah, amazing. I would like to chat about because obviously, I am coming from Australia, reading anything American about birth, postpartum experiences, like the fact that you copper bill, after your birth, and you are charged for some extra time with your baby in the in the delivery room, can you can you explain that to us? We don't pay to give birth, we obviously pay taxes. But we do not get a bill from the hospital whatsoever.
Laura 21:47
I wish I could explain it to you. And I say that. So it is a very bizarre, bizarre setup, in my humble opinion. So we have what's called high deductible plans. And you know, they say you pay very little per paycheck, but in reality, you pay per paycheck for your insurance. And then you have what's called a deductible. And you have to first meet your deductible before insurance kicks in at all. And so birth, just by the price tag in the States is several $1,000 and both both children now I can speak to this two different times. Both children were drug free Labor's so we didn't have an anesthesiologist, thank goodness, knock on wood, no operating room, no nothing. I was in another hospital pretty quickly with both of them. And they were 1000s of dollars. How many 1000s. So baby number one was 6000. And baby number two was 7000. And that is within an app that is having insurance. So that is like I'm I some of that, that it costs more than that, I should say. And some of it was covered by insurance. And so what you what I do anyway, and what a lot of people do on these plans is we have health savings accounts, they're called HSAs. And you put money away along the years so that you accrue dollars that you can use towards medical expenses. But it takes a little bit of time to get to 6000 or $7,000. So typically, you're on some sort of payment plan after the fact with the hospital or with the with the whoever's whoever's claiming the bills, but for my first I have no idea what I was doing. Like when I say I was like, I don't know if we're gonna get billed $500 I don't know if we're gonna get billed $15,000 Like you really you go in so blind and some of that I'm sure if I figured it out or took the time I could maybe get some answers. But I you know, I I equate it in the book to like, Would you ever go to a concert or like buy something lavish but not actually know what you're spending? Like? It's just it's so but again, it's one of those like, this is just how society works. And anybody I talked to has like a very similar story. Right? They went to the hospital and and I mean, like I said, I am I had a low cost birth, right, I had very little experiences. But yes, there was a charge for Jack, which I specifically referred to in there that I tried to dispute even afterwards and got nowhere, but there was apparently like 30 minutes allotted in the delivery room. And any time after that, before you move to postpartum there was an extra fee. And had I known that I would have whipped practice all up, put me in my mommy diaper and send me to the room and I would have moved a lot. So is there it's um, you know, I have a couple of friends like that was another $600
Fiona Weaver 24:51
or something. It was something absurd. Yeah,
Laura 24:54
I know. I know somebody who almost anybody who had a baby before me that I talked to about the Is Bill's headset Oh, make sure you read it with a fine tooth comb. There's, you know, there's always issues and there's always things wrong and like you have an interface for that. Exactly. My husband's one of one of friends of his told the story about how on their bill they were charged for like, I think it's, it's something like a two room suite. And the guy was like, my wife was in a closet for the love of God, and like it was the wrong charge. And they did that when they did get through. But like you said, nobody has the headspace for that postpartum and, and the bills are always very delayed. So like, I think I get to get them a few months after the fact anyway, and you know, you're, it's so far gone. But yes, it is. It is costly. And if if you look at the rates of or the the price tag associated with seseri, and in particular, and we have a very large cesarean rate in the US, that is a much, much, much more expensive birth than vaginal, even even vaginal with anesthesiology, or epidural, etc. So yes, it is not the best country for health care. Is it? No. Oh,
Fiona Weaver 26:11
maternity leave. No. So what? So you get four months maternity leave, but was that from your employer? That wasn't from
Laura 26:19
Yeah, I didn't know. So yes, and great clarification. So the United States doesn't actually have a maternity leave policy period. It's terrible. Most employers will do a six week maternity leave, it aligns with the Disability Leave the short term disability leave that is comes from the federal government. And then it's by employer from there. So my employer, I was very fortunate. Typically, like the the norm, I would say, is 12 weeks and usually paid. For me it was 16. Full paid. Yeah. Okay,
Fiona Weaver 27:00
from your employer. So your employer, you get six weeks pay from the government?
Laura 27:05
No, it's all from your employer. The six weeks is what the government mandates for Disability Leave. So there's a but then it's still employer paid. And for us, our company. So I work for General Electric, which is about to become three different companies. But at the time, they, theirs was 16 weeks, so that the company is going to choose to give more, if they if they would like so I'm considered have a very generous maternity leave in the US. But I work with a lot of global teams, and a lot of my colleagues are in Europe. And when I was pregnant with with Jack, they were all horrified that I'd be back so soon, like I can't believe you're going to be back in 16 weeks. The best is Hungary. My coworker in Hungary, three year maternity leave. Now granted, you're not guaranteed the exact same job because it's really hard to have a gap for three years, but you're guaranteed a job. And she had her first child was was out for I think she I think she did two and a half years or so. And then it was pregnant shortly after and then had her her second, and so really had like a large amount of time. So it's just if you look at all of the commotion is probably the best word around just the lack of support from others in the US. A big a big deal for us was that the American Academy of Pediatrics back in June, extended their recommendation for breastfeeding from a year to two years. It aligns with the WHO it aligns with the World Health Organization. So that's fabulous. But they also they do recognize and they do state that mothers need more support. If we're going to go around and say how beneficial breastfeeding is for two years, which by the way I do believe that it is then we need to make sure these mothers have the support they need, whether that's a room to pump at work or support in terms of being able to allow her to continue that or better maternity leave or more maternity leave. So we're just we have so many steps to take in order for moms to really get the level of support they need so that they don't feel this pressure to prematurely lean or sleep train, because they have to get back to work in three weeks. And so a lot of what moms may be feeling backed into a corner to do is because they're not necessarily set up by us for success with the way society is set up. Absolutely.
Fiona Weaver 29:42
Yeah. It's never it's never the fault of the individuals. Yes. Always much bigger than that. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. So I'm curious as to how you came to write a book like, Have you always been a writer because that's not your job is
Laura 29:55
not my job at all. So I work in. I work in computer science. I in HR technology is really specifically what I'm in. But ever since I was little, I've been an avid reader and I wanted to be a writer. Somewhere along the line, probably as I was approaching the age for college, I was like, oh, okay, but starving artists is a real thing. So maybe I should go to school for business, instead of writing. So it was like, more of a pipe dream type thing. And I never like, I never closed the door on it. It wasn't like, Okay, I didn't go to school for writing. So I'm done. It was just sort of like, I'll do that at some point, I swear. And then I just felt so passionate about my journey into motherhood, and the epiphanies and the revelations and the learnings that I had, that I was like, I'm doing this like I am 100%, writing a book. I remember, specifically the day I decided I was going to write the book. We run beach vacation, it was just my husband and my son in May. And I was reading a book, and I closed the book, the baby was napping. And I turned to my husband, I was like, I'm gonna write a book. And he was like, Oh, here we go. Here she goes, is one of her ideas. And I was like, No, I'm going to write a book. It's about motherhood. I haven't thought it all through yet. But I'm going to do it. And a year or so later, we had published it. And and it was there. It was just, I feel like when you have something you're so passionate about, and you actually have a hobby of writing, it was just it just flowed. It really did. I mean, my editor gets a ton of credit, obviously, for the way that she helped me with everything. But that was that was really, it was just sort of a decision. But it was not like something that just popped into nowhere. I have always wanted to write always enjoyed writing, ever since I was honestly probably like, middle school.
Fiona Weaver 31:51
Oh, that's amazing. So from, from the conception of the idea to actually having a published was a year.
Laura 31:58
A little over a year. Yes. Wow. So
Fiona Weaver 32:01
cool. Yes. Okay, so tell me, second baby, how was it different? How was your experience different? What did you reflect on in doing it a second time,
Laura 32:13
so many things were different. And part of it, so I bucket it into a couple different categories. Some of it was different, because I had already done the rebellion, right? I had already, I didn't have to think about circumcision, I didn't think about bed sharing and to educate myself on so many things, I got rid of the idea of perfection, you know, like it was just, I went into it a much calmer, like a much just more grounded approach. So that was one bucket, the second bucket and you will be able to relate to this entirely. Because I just laugh every time I think of your story because I can relate so much is no two babies are the same. In fact, in my case, my two boys are very, very different. So I don't write about this in Rebel mama. And it was intentional that I left it out. But Jack is like textbook, highly sensitive high needs baby and into childhood. And so with Benjamin I wasn't really sure what I was in for and he is that low needs, but he is the very typical orchid dandelion comparison. And for anybody listening who may not have heard of that, oftentimes, highly sensitive children are referred to as orchids. And then I hate the word normal, but quote unquote normal, referred to as dandelions. And he is that is that is Benjamin to a tee super chill. He will do an activity for like 25 minutes, whereas my older son, it was like three seconds and then we must be on to the next and on to the next on to the next. And Ben didn't take a bottle. And it was actually my husband who finally was like, let's stop trying this. Like, let this is I'm giving up but this is too much work for all of us. But it was it's just been a very organic journey into motherhood. His birth was almost anti climatic so I did. I did I I'd love to talk to you about this another time because I know you're you're in the throes of pregnancy right now. But I did a bliss born course. So Hypno birthing. Barbara Harper actually turned to me onto it. I had I had read her book when I was preparing for Jack's birth, but I didn't actually do any formal preparation for for Jack. And I was like alright for Ben, I'm going into this totally different mentality than I then I was with Jack and I started having contractions with him. Around 730 We went to the hospital and by 10am He was here it was just like the most relaxed like as relaxing as giving birth can be but it was just a very pure smell experience. And it was just it's funny because when we look back on it, the hectic chaos of Jacksboro is so just jack and the super chill. Here, birth of Ben is so bad. So so much is different. But the second bucket is because they're just different as well. So it's just it's a combination of, I'm different, because I'm at a different point in my journey. And these babies are different, too. We joke and say, if we had been first, would there be your rebel mama book? Like, what I would we know half of what we know because of his temperament? And, uh, you know, you don't know. But it's, it's been? It's been super cool. I mean, I don't know if you felt the same way when you had the the difference in the temperaments. But it's, it really gives such perspective. And it's both experience is so humbling. Because you really, you don't know until you're in the moment. It's
Fiona Weaver 35:55
so validating. And I say the same thing about my experience, I don't think I would be doing what I am doing if I didn't have my firstborn. Yes. I don't think I would have been so passionate about spreading the good word, because I'm probably, you know, probably drowsy but awake. If I had, if I had my mindset on that with my second born, if she was first, she probably would have taken to agreed till I say this. Yeah. And she probably would have just started sleeping through the night at some point. And I probably moved, you know, settled her in other ways and things. And so I probably wouldn't have been so passionate about going down that path. So yeah, I completely connect. And I think that'd be a mama matters without an oxy boy. I totally, totally.
Laura 36:35
I remember when I read your story. And then I was I was listening to one of your, your rap podcast where you talked about your family sleep situation. And I was just laughing thinking now your your second is a girl. So we don't have that. But I was like I could be say if I had an Australian accent, I would be. This is my story. So yeah.
Fiona Weaver 36:53
Yeah. And my second point isn't a unicorn and I don't know if she would be a dandelion. I really don't know, I think she might be a tulip. I need to do a little bit more research on because that's new. Yep. But she, He's highly sensitive and that he is sensitive to the world, the overwhelm her, you have to be really, you know, careful about how you approach things with him and things like that. But she's sensitive, emotionally, like she's quite teary and can get hurt feelings and things like that. So she has a different kind of sensitive, she's not so much. Okay, but she's not quite that you can just, you know, throw her into situations and she'll handle Yeah,
Laura 37:33
so we are very intrigued to see how Ben develops as I mean, he's a year so, so much of the personality and the talk, like all of that is still yet to come. But we are going to be curious to see like we talked about Easter was just yesterday in the States. And we were really like, okay, it is what it is with desserts and sweet treats and overwhelming and Easter icons. And my oldest just spirals out of control and has been completely dysregulated. Today, he has like an Easter hangover. We're calling it and so we were my husband, I was saying I wonder if Ben will just be like, Yeah, okay, I'll have a cupcake. But like the world won't end i'll be normal. So. So it's just it's, it's, I think motherhood is fascinating. Absolutely fascinating.
Fiona Weaver 38:19
Yes. It really is. We learned so much about ourselves. Yeah. And just watching these little personalities unfold is so fascinating, really as Yeah. So where can people learn about you? Where can people look for your book and everything like that?
Laura 38:34
I love to direct people to my website, it's rebel mama rights.com. There's links to the book, of course, you can take the shortcut and go directly to Amazon, or any online retailer does have the book as well. I have a very loose blog out there on the website as well that I wish I had more up there. But there's only so much time in a day. So I like folks to get some traffic there. And then hopefully, when things settle down for me, I am working on book number two, which is actually going to be all book. I'm sorry, all birth focused. So I'm really excited to talk through that. Yes. So I have no make no promises on dates or anything like that. But I do like to tell people that the brand will continue it's just going to be at a slow mom pace.
Fiona Weaver 39:29
That sounds good to me. And you know, we haven't done the job for you though. We would like your book on Audible, please.
Laura 39:35
Yes, yes, I do. That is on my list of things to do. And I will make that happen. Yeah, that will happen well before it's book number two comes out. That is on my list of things.
Fiona Weaver 39:45
You will remember is that book club book in our membership, and it's people have requested that it can be
Laura 39:51
Yes, absolutely. You know what you that's the motivation I needed to get that a little higher on the to do list.
Fiona Weaver 40:00
Lots of new moms are only listening. Oh, for
Laura 40:01
sure, for sure. Absolutely. And I tell everybody to put the Kindle app on your phone. You don't have to have a Kindle. Because I know what it's like to be nap trapped. And I read a lot of books on my Kindle app, my poor Kindle. I don't even know if it has a charge to it right now.
Fiona Weaver 40:17
I've only just bought a kindle a couple of months ago. And I was a little bit anti because I thought, no, that's not a real book. But I love that. They really
Laura 40:24
it's so I read nothing but physical books until I had children and I can count on probably two hands. How many physical books I've read since I've had them. Most of them have been electronic. It's been hard to manage one. Yes, they are. I'm not that I'm not that coordinated.
Fiona Weaver 40:39
And then you kid will go in and then they'll lose your dog. Yeah, sure. Well, thank you so much for your time today, Laura. It's been so nice to talk to you. Your book is incredible. I am about two thirds of the way through I've got a bit more to go. But I am loving it. It's such an easy read and relatable and I'm really enjoying it. So thank you so much for the opportunity to chat with you today. Thank
Laura 41:01
you so much to you as well. I look forward to talking to you soon and your book club.
Fiona Weaver 41:05
Yes, we'll see you in the membership. Thank you so much for listening to mama chatters if you enjoyed this episode, let's continue the conversation on Instagram at MAMA matters.edu. Be sure to share this app with your family and friends. And don't forget if you liked it, please leave a rating and review wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you again and I will see you next time.
