Nicole Pates Kids Physio on milestone anxiety, patting and shushing in a dark room, and role reversals in the home
Nicole is a Paeds Physio and the founder of Western Kids Health in Perth. She is on a mission to demystify motor development and focus your attention on connecting with your baby through play. We chat about: How she has created an epic community of over 100k followers after starting a rogue Insta account back in the pandemic Her transition to motherhood with her eldest in 2016 and how pressure to perfect sleep created anxiety Having her second during a pandemic, navigating isolation and unexpected separation from her first born Her observations on how information overload has triggered milestone anxiety in so many parents Her return to work full time and role shake-up in the home and how it has impacted their relationship.
You can find Nicole here: Insta @nicole_kidsphysio www.babyplayacademy.com
Hey Mama, I have a Sleep Guide for you! For birth to 18 months, this guide is steeped in evidence and laced with compassion. And you can download the first chapter absolutely free HERE.
Are we Insta pals? If not, why not? Come and hang out at @mamamatters.au!
As always, thanks for being here- if you enjoy this poddy I would LOVE if you could give a rating and a review. It means the world to me.
xx
TRANSCRIPT
Fiona Weaver 00:09
Hello love and welcome to the Manage chatters podcast. If you're keen to ditch all of the parenting shoulds and want to uncomplicate sleep and parenting, you are in the right place, through honest conversations with experts and each other, we will help you to cut through all of the noise and to love the heck out of your imperfect and authentic parenting. I'm Fiona, a social worker by trade. Now supporting families with sleep and parenting through my business mama matters. I'm passionate about parenting psychology, biologically normal infants sleep and infant mental health and attachment. I'm also a parent and I am on a mission to normalise the shitshow that can be parenthood. I know that right now you might be trapped under a sleeping baby. Or maybe you've got your headphones in to soften the blue of the afternoon witching hour, wherever and whoever you are. I want you to know that you belong here. Now, let's have a chat Hello, my love. I hope you guys have had a lovely week. It is school holidays here in Queensland. And there's been a little bit of a shift lately a shift in perspective. I used to almost dread the school holidays because I felt like my son just expected things that were extraordinary every day. And I was trying to work around him and it just wasn't really working out. I felt a lot of pressure. But now I just love them. I really really enjoy the slow mornings I enjoy the no school drop offs and pickups. I enjoy having everyone around. I don't know what's shifted in me but it's been lovely. But my kids are whale watching today with nanny and puppy that helps. And I got to interview my friend Nicole who is a paediatric physio. You might know her on Instagram as Nicole kids physio. She's an absolute powerhouse, totally down to earth legend. And I'm particularly grateful to her today because I know she was feeling a little bit. She said I caught her on a vulnerable day and she spoke about some really vulnerable things. And I know that she has a vulnerability hangover as Brene Brown would say. But I know that that is a as a collective as a collective society. This is what we are craving these real honest, no bullshit stories about the transition to motherhood, the pressures of sleep, the pressures of reaching milestones, the isolation that so many of us have felt having babies in the pandemic. This is all real stuff. And her story matters. And I'm really really grateful to her for sharing that with you today. So she's a peds physio. She's the founder of Western kids health in Perth, and she is on a mission to demystify motor development and focus your attention instead, on connecting with your baby through play. I hope you guys enjoy this chat as much as I did. And I will see you on the other side. Welcome Nikola, thank you so much for being here. I'm so excited to have you on the podcast today.
Nicole Pate 03:06
I'm so excited to be here. Fair enough. I love listening to you and your podcasts and feel really privileged that you've asked me
Fiona Weaver 03:13
to come on. I feel privileged to have you here you have such a beautiful community and following that I noticed on Instagram, everyone just hanging off every word you say as they should because you know, you're amazing. But did you ever expect it to blow up like that?
Nicole Pate 03:30
No, no, no. I didn't know it. Well, it was obviously locked down and I had Claire and a couple of the mums that I had seen before I went on maternity leave who had read a little Bubs had contacted me through Instagram through our western kids health and said let's do Can we can we do some baby development groups? I was like yeah sure. No worries but I should probably start a baby Instagram rather than putting on our main worsen kids work health page because that's everything. And then yet just went from there. Really from running some like free online virtual moms groups. And really, yeah, yep. So
Fiona Weaver 04:09
Wow.
Nicole Pate 04:10
Yeah. And because they said all we want to tell our friend how can we tell you Fred, tell our friends and I was like, Oh, I also have an Instagram and we'll go through there. Yeah, so obviously what the people want. Yeah, I don't know. I was thinking about that this morning in the shower actually, like because he said that you're going to ask that question how it all started. I never really expected it to be insane. Like, I think I had 400 followers and I was like, this is mad. Like, I can't answer DMS. Like I just don't have the time to do this. And now yeah, there's way more but it still feels like the same
Fiona Weaver 04:49
thing. Over 100,400
Nicole Pate 04:55
I like I don't know I guess for from Instagram or really, really, relationships on Instagram and I was thinking about it and shell, and yourself and Penny and Alana and Kyla. And like the game we all kind of started out as like, we all kind of had like little bit followers together. And I got to know we all connected and like, you've just really enjoyed following that journey and and growing up with my crew on Instagram. But yeah, so yeah, and I think yeah, I don't know. And that's obviously been a mum for a while now. So six years, not too long, but a little while. And I've had Instagram that whole time. And I had a lot of anxiety the first time around and didn't, didn't use Instagram as much for the same way. And it wasn't as helpful as it is this space. And I've worked really hard to cultivate a feed and and my small community that fit with my values. So enjoyed it and become addicted.
Fiona Weaver 05:57
Yeah. So you're a paediatric physio. So before the whole Instagram thing, you were working in a practice, we work in your own practice.
Nicole Pate 06:07
Yeah, so I'm, I actually founded my own little practice called Western kids health. On the back of having a few different workplaces and different environments, and just wanting to find something that suited my family life and my work life balance a little bit more. And I had more flexibility over, I really wanted to be able to be like, if you work in health, and when we work in health, it's really tricky. Because we're, we're there for people all the time. And you, you are really there for them emotionally. So I'm the type of person that would go home and think about my patients and working in the hospital setting it to cute, and I would really, I really feel guilty for taking a day off work or having to leave because I would really want to be there and help. And I know there's other people in the hospital that could do that. But like, you know, the staffing is tricky, and, and you just want to be there for your patients. And so working in the community, like, you can always reschedule can go, I'll see you in two more days, because it's not, it's not like a life or death thing that I'm working in its development. And, you know, two days or three days or five days, like I'll still be there. And so I like that flexibility of being able to drop everything for my kids and reschedule my patients. And they've stood for understanding because they have kids do. Kids Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And we'll be able to be like, oh, actually do I forgot it's um, it's sports, carnival day, or it's edgy Dance Day, or it's Monday morning tea for moms at at daycare, and I really want to go to that. And so having that flexibility to block out time and nip out and come back was was what I really wanted. And I wanted that for my staff as well. So that's kind of why I founded not why but part of the why why I founded Western kids health and the other why was when we was little I had a really nice fun journey of different messages from different health professionals and anxiety and things around that and so I just wanted somewhere that was more strength based and family really, really focused on that family centred and that whole child and the whole family approach and was for the child so it wasn't like they're walking into a medical centre. And you know, it could be much more relaxed and so those two wires together led me to on this crazy journey.
Fiona Weaver 08:31
Yeah, amazing. So let's speak to that a little bit. So who's in your family and what was that journey into motherhood like for you?
Nicole Pate 08:41
So my family is me and my husband Ben and our first baby Raja our dog who I remember saying I remember saying all these people say things are gonna change when when you have baby but I'm still going to be the one that my poor dog it has changed a lot for him so he hasn't he has put on a few kilos with the less walking in the ticket. But So Roger and then we had will in 2016 and clean 2020 Yep, so I've got wills now fix and close to So Will is a hurricane we call him that a beautiful hurricane that he Yeah, he's a full of life child and but also has his own agenda and very hard to try and have a routine or have you know, like he he just he's he's on the ball. And so we took a while to go again for Miss Claire
Fiona Weaver 09:52
some time to recover from that one. Yeah. So what was that postpartum period like with Well, time ago, so
Nicole Pate 10:02
it was it was a really long time ago and you've called me on a really vulnerable day. That just before so wills bought in on the first of July. So, like a week before that my husband's twin brother, and my best friend who are married, they moved to London to their live move to London a week before he was born. And my mum and dad went to Bali for a wedding. Well, while he was born, and my husband started job, he started a new job just just before we had well, maybe like, six months before we had Bill. And so he didn't get any paternity leave or didn't really have any annual leave. We'd actually used it for his brother's wedding, his annual leave, Susan negative leave. So he only had three days off when we was born. And that was, Oh, goodness. Yeah, that was the Friday were in hospital and the Saturday and the Sunday that were in hospital. And then when I came home on Monday, I think he had the Monday off. And then he went back to work on the Tuesday. And we lived in Perth, which is all of our family live in country, Western Australia. So yeah, it was pretty isolating. And
Fiona Weaver 11:15
yeah, wow.
Nicole Pate 11:17
A little bit full on that. And you know, like, it's hard, like adjusting from just being able to pick up the keys and walk out the door to having a full time caregiving role to her tiny little thing that can't really do very much on its own and can't communicate the its needs as well as it would like to. So yeah, so that was really tricky. And I just, I thought about it that you know, like COVID, although COVID was, is really hard. And lockdown is really, really hard. Like, I feel like there are a lot of moms or, or parents or caregivers or dads out there that have been in that early newborn period where it almost feels like a lockdown. Because you know, you can leave, it's really bloody hard to leave. And when people visit, they just want to hold the baby and they just want to, you know, chat and then and then. But the it's like just the ongoing relentlessness of that, that period that was really tricky for me. Mm hmm.
Fiona Weaver 12:15
And so was your husband working full time at the time as well. So nine to five? Well, a week.
Nicole Pate 12:21
Yeah. And it was um, he just moved from like a FIFO role into a like a finance role. So it was actually more like 60 hour weeks, so probably like six to six. Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah. And he Yeah, he's he's so he's amazing and would help him anyway could but he also sleeps really heavily through? It does doesn't go. Anything like that. Not faking it like it really? Is. We have a joke that he just sleeps anyway, he could fall asleep at a bus stop and not wake. Just if he's dying. Yes. Dangerous. Yeah. brother and his brother fell asleep on the train. And like, went all the way to mandrup which is much nicer than Perth trying to get home from work when not
Fiona Weaver 13:05
really those stories. Do. You know, my son took a train for the first time the other day and he was so nervous about it. He went with his nanny to Brisbane, so I'm on the Gold Coast. It's an hour long trip on that. But he was he couldn't sleep the night before. He was so nervous about this train, because he was worried that it was going to go so fast. And all the doors were open. And I think he was actually thinking like on the movies, those freight trains. But you know, like, I'm thinking of Ferdinand the movie. I love that on this running train as he's trying to get away from the bad guys. So I had to explain to him that was pretty much just like a train. Just goes faster. Yeah. And he's like, I don't want it to go faster. Bless him. Yeah, but then that was one of his worries that what if it gets? What if we get lost or it goes on a different track or something? Or we fall asleep and we don't wake up?
Nicole Pate 13:59
Yes. Well, we can tell him it's okay. I can tell him that it does happen. When it's all okay. So yeah, he was he was he was very heavily but and him and his brother just Yeah, it's a joke in our in our friendship group. Oh, and that was the other thing. So out of all our friends. I was the first to have a baby. Which is nice to be the Yes. It's um, if that's been new, it's just no one really understands that the trickiness of it. You don't understand until you've been through it. Every journey is different. So it's tricky.
Fiona Weaver 14:31
Yeah. So a few risk factors there. Hey. So what did you do in terms of connecting with other moms? Did you join moms groups did you get online?
Nicole Pate 14:42
So I don't know if we'll I don't know if it's like in the eastern states, but our mother's group doesn't start to like week nine, or nine or nine. So we didn't we didn't start till at least where it was half way after the six week checkup I went to the park a lot, and met some mums there. And I did lots of play. So lots of play with Will. Probably a little bit like with with Claire, I'm all about the simple play. But at that time, I had more time on my hands. So I am I would like paper cool crabs for his baby gym. And like, you know, like, like the intricate I don't know why I would make all this DIY stuff, which my husband was just like, What are you doing and like occupy myself? So I did lots of lots of play, and lots of outdoor time. And I think the best thing was probably meeting some mums that were three, six months ahead of where I was, which helped to normalise a few of the things that I was going through. But yeah, getting outside getting outside a lot. And yeah, and and play in connecting with Will was probably where I was at.
Fiona Weaver 16:00
And then when did you go back to work with? Well,
Nicole Pate 16:03
I think probably well, I decided to keep doing my masters at that time, too. I thought, just a masters.
Fiona Weaver 16:10
Good choice. Yeah, great choice.
Nicole Pate 16:13
So I looked at the mix, was just studying at nights and trying to manage that. And we've noticed like social work like, tick, tick. And do my masters. I was doing my masters and then went back to work. I really wanted to go back to work. I really was like I need some something. And so I went back one day a week when he was I think eight months old.
Fiona Weaver 16:42
Yeah. How did that go?
Nicole Pate 16:45
Finding care was really hard. I thought I would try family. Yeah, I thought I've tried family daycare, and had the most horrific experience with finding with the trial and family daycare who'd come recommended but did the two hour you do two hour like you do your little visits before her everything's in fine. And then did the two hour leave and came back and he was just screaming and she's like just his his sleep time that he couldn't sleep. So I just left him in his car. And so he just was screaming from the Porta cot. And that was very triggering and hard. And she also was like, and he didn't eat his lunch. It was like super chunky. And I was like he's still like motional chunks. Just to me. I think that was at seven months we'd had a trial. And so then I ended up finding the daycare that we were at for the five years, four years that he was at daycare, and it clears up now, which was really nice.
Fiona Weaver 17:41
So did you just pull him out after that you want this isn't the place for me?
Nicole Pate 17:46
Yeah, yeah. And that was a good decision. Probably the first one that I was like, listening to my own instincts about what was going on and just being like, yeah. Good when
Fiona Weaver 18:00
you It's hard, isn't it? I mean, I went through a similar experience finding care for my son, when he first started at daycare. And I tried. I tried a Montessori daycare, and it just didn't feel right. And then I was sitting in the car afterwards calling my husband crying. And I'm like, I just don't know what is first time mom anxiety, like, is this one I'm supposed to feel because I don't want to be doing this? Or is this banker telling me that this is not the place. And in the end, we decided that it was my gut telling me it wasn't the place. And then we found a family daycare, which felt better. But even now looking back, I think or I don't know. It wasn't bad, but it wouldn't be my first pick now. But yeah, the childcare Sunday, that now is incredible. But it is it's really hard to find that balance, isn't it to find that confidence between what is this? What's what's my instinct telling me versus what's just feeling anxious?
Nicole Pate 18:54
No. So hard. I don't know. And I and it's hard. Everyone's like, it's like when people say, Nick, what school do you think recommend? Or what daycare? Do you recommend? Or what? What toy? And I'm like, Well, I don't know, because I don't know your child and I don't know your family values. And I don't know what you want. Like I can't You can't recommend I can tell you what, like, what might be helpful and what might be unhelpful. But there's not like I think it's really hard when people ask for specifics of stuff, because just depends on your experience and what you're looking for. And
Fiona Weaver 19:23
yeah, exactly. So what was your postpartum experience like with Claire then so she came along four years later?
Nicole Pate 19:32
Yeah, way, way better and actually had some support by that time. And some, you know, professional support and all actually it was pretty cool. I don't know what I'm saying. No, like in terms of my mental strength. I was back in a better place and was good, but I'm obviously going to COVID that was a bit like unsaid sling. But it was nice to know that Ben would be home for six weeks like because she was born on the eve of lockdown. But the week before that she was born. Ben had come from early from work, and we kind of worked our life balance heaps to like, make it a really beautiful transition period for will and for us. And we went to the park and Ben never come to the park, like it usually will be, because he'll be at work. But he came home early, and he came to the park with us. And we've been at the park for it 10 or 15 minutes and like one of the like, everyone in our neighbourhood knows everyone now. And we'd seen a friend walking their dog and these two dogs just came and attacked her and her dog and ended up rolling her dog to death. And then and this teenager at the park ran over and like tried to restrain the dogs while someone helped them get to a bit and a hospital. And because they moved her as well. And then the teenager, yeah, the teenager was being one of them was holding on to the male dog who just got away and came at us, which was horrifying. So he's like we, we don't come to he's me like 38 weeks. Oh, my God playground, like can't come up. And then like trying to get will up the slide. And you have Roger like threw himself in front of me from this dog. And then Ben and I tried to get this dog off Roger and like I'm kicking the other dog and the teenager by then was helping us. And so it was it was pretty, it was horrible. And then I went into like, what's called spurious labour, where you sort of have contractions that come to like, three minutes, two minutes apart, and then they stop. And that will go on and on and on and on. And so like I was in and out of stress. Yep, so in and out of hospital. And. And then so that was Monday. And then Friday, we had clear. But obviously being in and out of hospital will had ended up at my assistants. And then we didn't actually get out of hospital until Wednesday when lockdown had happened. So we couldn't come to hospital to meet Claire. And Claire had a few Dusties where she lives in hospital. And so we had to stay longer. And by the time we got home, we hadn't seen him for like properly for a week or so. And it was just hard from there. For him. It was a really hard transition from him. And he'd been through trauma and like, you know, every we couldn't go out and no one who can visit. And so yeah, I had a time but a different time in that it was hard, like Ben and I were really strong together and had had with wheels and motions and supporting him putting him through it. And more than that I split outspoken data with one of my friends isn't midwife the other day and you only really reflect ago I actually that was pretty true. I should work through this, compartmentalise it for so long. Maybe Maybe I should talk more about this with
Fiona Weaver 22:55
someone you mentioned before that you were in a different place because you had some professional support as well. Do you mean some, like psychologists support? Yeah, and
Nicole Pate 23:05
then, um, so some of it was just recognising. I think the moment that I knew that it was not normal, was probably after four hours in the dark of trying to Shoosh wheel. And I've downloaded this bloody sleep programme that had told me that I needed to put a muslin wrap over the cord so that he couldn't see me, but I could be there. So I'm sitting in will is a bit of a hurricane and a hurricane in the sense of that for months he was sitting and reaching for food and trying to like steal crackers off the table and crawling by five months and you know, like so he was a really early developer. He just and he's one of those kids that are easy intrinsically motivated to move like you don't even need toys you don't need you don't need anything in the room. He's like, I'm just gonna like Claire honey, she's too and she's just discovered there's like stuff in the toilet for cleaning. Like we had found that at seven months and was trying to eat it like he could open door handles by night let you know he was just enough. So anyway, he's like, I'm there at the cart lash, like come on. It's your it's the schedule. They say you meant to wake up to seven, you've been up to five but now he's meant to be in that time. And he's like pulling the curtain away to play like peekaboo with me. And I was like, oh, sorry, the feels like oh, don't look at it. don't acknowledge human health like this. This really doesn't feel right. Anyway, and then Ben had come home from work the next day or the weekend or whatever. And he's like, let's go to Bunnings to like, you know, you get all ready to go in the car and get in the car, get the product, get everything spare change the clothes, get in the car that we're driving, and I'm like, Oh my God, you have to turn around. And he's like, what? We have to go home. He was like, It's 1024 He needs to be in his car in the dark by 1030 Like we need him Not one schedule. And I just started crying and muscles like what is wrong? This is not this is not okay. And I was like you're not okay. Yeah, that's, that's where the threads came on revelling.
Fiona Weaver 25:16
Was that something that you had tried for a little while and that was the breaking point or was that when you had just started? Now we try to I try to do the cutting the routine?
Nicole Pate 25:25
Nah, he, he just doesn't. And he still doesn't sleep. So he didn't. This isn't to like make everyone stressed but he didn't sleep through the night too. He was like four, or four and a bit after. But I don't really sleep and my husband doesn't really sleep like we couldn't be up till midnight and have four or five hours sleep and get up and go and we'd be grumpy and because we're older, but I'm like, I'm like
Fiona Weaver 25:50
I'm the child you're generally low sleep needs.
Nicole Pate 25:53
Yeah, and like as a kid Yeah, I was not a great sleeper like mom would be like, it's nighttime. It's bedtime going around at seven and only we use black play or read to like, whenever and then just get up at six like five or six or morning and go but Mum black My mom was a little bit more chill. You know, we had a big backyard in the country forest Bush behind us. And then like the ocean like or the beach like two minutes in front of us. And so I just was a free ranging room child I lived on the roof of the house and climb trees and she just never really cared. She didn't care.
Fiona Weaver 26:29
You lived on the roof.
Nicole Pate 26:32
I just climbed up there all the time. And like spied on my mom knew but she knew I was safe. And she knew I had the motor skills and I don't know it's a different time back then. So I love it. I love it. That yes, you know you can climb and snap in a tree and Buddha and Cubby like with a hammer like seven or eight you know different so he's I think he's more like that. And you know that type of environment he would thrive but we live in a city with routine and no trees like we do trees at the park. But yeah, but yeah, so anyway, I've been just saying Claire just wants to do puzzles and do things on the floor. Is it too? We will we'll get inside get out of the tree on the driveway. Like any chance you could get he would escape and run away. Because he just wanted to be at the bar. And he would run away a lot like that to be free. Yeah. And when I when we're in lockdown, like I took the dog for a walk for a bit of space, then call me He's like, he's like in eastern shops with clear like Putin. He's like he's run away. He's run off to you. Where are you? And so he we couldn't find it. Yeah, he'd run
Fiona Weaver 27:43
away. Oh my god. Yep. So it was great. And that would have been a horrible half hour, that would have felt like a long time. Where was he?
Nicole Pate 27:52
He was just like one of that one of our lovely neighbours, who we know really well from the park, she was walking. So it's kind of like, the park is this huge green space. But that's not open. There's like Bush and sand and hills. And so she had walked the opposite direction for me. So I had gone up another way. And I was coming back and she got and she said she, like caught in crossing the road. It's like, oh, let's walk together. So she fought with him. But um, but he was running. So she. But yeah, so
Fiona Weaver 28:23
He's terrifying. He's an
Nicole Pate 28:25
interesting little kid. He's gorgeous. But just for full and full of ideas and full of life.
Fiona Weaver 28:29
When you thought that you were doing everything wrong, because he wasn't sleeping in a certain way. How did you accept his low sleep needs like is that I know that that's a concept that a lot of people haven't even come across before. Because they get the routines from Pinterest and the sleep guides and things and they're like, I'm doing it wrong.
Nicole Pate 28:46
It wasn't a thing back then either. So this is like early, like 2016. Like, there wasn't really much. I think it was like early days if well, Instagram obviously existed, but it wasn't. It wasn't a huge as big as it is now, obviously. And there wasn't variety. It was like a sleep. This is a sleep stuff. And yeah. I don't know, I just was like, it's just not working. Like I can't do this. I'm not in a really good place. So that's to sort this out. And then I think it was more like an like the whole feeding to sleep like, oh, I can't fit him to sleep last night, but he won't sleep any other way. So we're just going to do it. And my husband and I often don't agree on certain things that as you do as parents, you don't always agree on every single certain thing. And so that was a bit tricky, like, like you just expect them to so you expect them to just sleep like they would in the movies or they would in the books or other kids have faster. So now I lay in Claire's bed, but we was on the top bunk so we're getting them without graded approach of separation. But now I can put an audio book on and give him a kiss and he will go to sleep by himself which is lovely, but he like he still wakes up every now and then for a cuddle. So we're getting there and you get bit.
Fiona Weaver 30:00
I think from both of our work, we are seeing the increased anxiety in mothers and parents around sleep, obviously, but also in the way that people are tracking milestones, do you find that there has been an increase in anxiety since all the Instagram and the information and things? Yeah, and this?
Nicole Pate 30:20
Yeah, 100% agree. And I think, from my approach, and my philosophy is how I've, obviously my experience with wheel has shaped this a lot in that kids are really different. And that's okay. And that's normal. And it's, I find it really frustrating when there's a specific number, and people are trying to target a number because you can't train your child or you can't, like force your child to crawl by eight and a half months, or roll by six months, because there's so many different factors that go into a child's motivation to move in ability to move that you can't control for them. And I think that's the where I came from, from with the sleep is like, there are just some things you can't control, there are things you can do to help and there are things you can do that you can provide that might be helpful for your family. And that might not be helpful for other families. And I think I that experience with will sleep differently. And also like I'm a physio and I know this, but I know that when they learn a new skill, they usually use one side first, I remember calling my friend at the hospital being like, Oh my God, he's, he's three months, and he's only reaching with this one hand. Do you think he's got cerebral palsy? And she was like, why would you say that? I googled it. She's like, why are you googling things in a coma? Like, I? I just, I just I'm just noticing this. And she's like, Nicole chill, like, what would you tell your patients? I tell them that, like, you just need that person to? I was like, What am I doing? You're just so caught up in, in? I don't know, just so yeah, your brain doesn't work out normally would work. And it's hard.
Fiona Weaver 32:00
It's hard. And it's when it's when it's all you're doing all day, like all you're doing all day is probably putting your baby to sleep playing with them and watching what they can and can't do. So it's really hard to not be all consumed. And it's another thing that you feel as though you can track you know, put numbers to things that are tangible when everything is so uncontrollable and unpredictable. And everything is up in the air. Sometimes you just naturally grasp. Yeah, numbers and measurements, things that you can measure.
Nicole Pate 32:32
Yeah. And I think that's that was the biggest thing for me is that I was such a physio physios are very like, let me measure it, did it work? Can I change it? Like, we're very like, structured in our approach and scientists and then coming into this new life of mine, there's no control, like there is no like, you can't, you're not we're not controlling our children. That's not. But you have to like I found that really hard to let go of that wanting to control and wanting to set the tone. And I think, yeah, that's like you've kind of feel like you do have control if you're tracking and you're like, Yep, I've got my, my tracker here. And I've done this and it just might help you feel like you have a sense of control when you really don't. And a lot of the apps that we follow here or that we have the big apps that kind of based on medians or averages that still there's going to be a number of families that are like well, I'm below that average, or I'm below that median because 50% of people are like, so now I'm stressed because my baby's not doing it at this time. Whereas at least Yeah, at least for sleep. They're like, Oh, well, they might take you the night at two weeks or two years or 12. But I'm like we'd milestones it's a much more definitive number of when they should be doing things and so like, and I just feel like no matter how many times I say it, there are still parent licks, babies for months and not rolling. And that's okay. Yeah, but it's still the message that you're getting out there. So I don't know. Just keep pushing it.
Fiona Weaver 34:05
Yeah, I was just there's just so much information and advice isn't there? Like if you were to Google, when should my baby be rolling you will be met with so many rules and milestones that is so hard to just ignore. I mean, you don't want to ignore either because you need to be keeping an
Nicole Pate 34:22
eye you don't want to miss anything either. And that's an anxiety is Yeah, guarantees like is my child gonna be okay. Is uh, you know, I think that's what we all worry about is like, Is my child going to be okay, like, what, you know, there's that in the back of your mind and so, yeah,
Fiona Weaver 34:39
yeah, for sure. And just that pressure of having full responsibility for a human being is so overwhelming and it takes a long time to settle into that what if you ever do but having a new baby and feeling as though you you do need to keep an eye on all of the things and help them develop and nurture everything It's it's completely overwhelming and anxiety producing.
Nicole Pate 35:05
And you feel like you fail if you don't follow that if you're not if your child isn't average or follows that schedule or is within that, you know, no, like that middle part of the bell curve, like it can feel like oh my god. Yeah. Have I failed? No. It's another
Fiona Weaver 35:20
way to to be competitive as well, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. People want to meet the milestones and reach the goals of setting and the goals of walking and it can be part of your identity or part of your part of your life. It's almost productivity, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cuz you feel like take that off the list? Yep. And
Nicole Pate 35:42
if my child is doing this, then I'm doing well, to measure of my success as a
Fiona Weaver 35:46
parent. Yeah. Which is good baby. Good development, good sleep a good mom,
Nicole Pate 35:50
which is not bad. It's really hard to see that, I guess it's really hard to, to think back because you feel that's how we're structured. And that's through the media and through internet and through social media. It's like, if you're not here, then it's not good. And it's hard because the be like, You must feel it too, with some of the really, really big accounts that especially the American American based accounts, some of the therapists are very like, talk about averages all the time, rather than ranges. And it's really hard when you have an average all the time rather than a range, because it increases anxiety. I just wish people would talk about ranges.
Fiona Weaver 36:33
Yeah. So you get everyone coming from they're anxious and needing reassurance from you? Yeah,
Nicole Pate 36:39
yeah. So my mum, my mother is it's black and white, if it's a black and white statement question.
Fiona Weaver 36:46
Yeah, I'm like that. Yeah, that's good. Encouraging flexibility of mind. So you have just recently returned to work full time, haven't you with? Is your husband stay at home? Dad? Or is he working part time? What's this looking like at the moment? And How's it feeling for you?
Nicole Pate 37:02
Oh, sorry, um, within with this huge jump in Instagram, on social media, and even at work. So even without social media, we're thinking itself now has 30 over 30 employees. Which is fine. Yeah. So we have like 10 810, physios and six OTs and lots of ITAR. Because although there's a large number of employees, lots of people work part time, because I'm really, really passionate about skilled, skilled people not leaving the workforce, because they there's no flexibility with working arrangements. So we have really good people, but they might work a day or two a week. So we have 30 employees across psych, OT, dietetics, speech and physio and then admin staff. And we have three clinics at the moment. But next year, so early, early end of quarter one next year, we are joining to the clinics together in this beautiful old heritage building that because when I when I originally thought of Western kids health, I wanted somewhere where kids could go that's not doesn't look medical, and it's like, you know, one of those old houses with green spaces and, you know, huge space and like, gym like areas for kids in different developmental levels. So you know, the teens could have their like Pilates or their strength conditioning, and the babies could have the baby gym. And you could do everything different in the OTS. So like, this is my vision, and I'm very lucky to have a business partner who's quite fill a philanthropic who's like, Yeah, let's just do this. But I'm paying off debt for years and years and years. But um, so that's like the old like, it's the old Shenton Park rehab hospital in Perth that used to be like the rehab hospital, but and when now they've redone it, and it's gonna have this beautiful cafe. Next word that sounds really yummy cinnamon scrolls,
Fiona Weaver 38:54
but like, oh, important. Yes. And coffee. And you will hear you will smell the cinnamon wafting through.
Nicole Pate 39:00
Yep. So that's cool. So exciting that so that opens early, early next year. And so I don't know, we're thinking it tells us just, I love what I do. Like I call it my iki guy. Like it's like my passion. But you know, you make money for it. But you also help people like it's a Japanese term. You could go and bid. Yeah. And then really, it's something you didn't like his job, but he's just like, you love what you do. And this, this is getting quite big now. And really serious and like a house just look like because, you know, trying to juggle all of the things and he's like, and he's never really had any time off either. And he's like, Well, I'll just take six to 12 months and reevaluate and see where things are. And yeah, I wouldn't say that he he loves cooking like he absolutely adores cooking. So like now everyone I used to come to work and be like eating a muesli bar and an apple. And now I've got like my pre packed lunch with My raw balls that are homemade and, like muffin thing, which is good. Everyone's like, wow, like Yeah. Yeah. So, um, but yeah, so he's just taking that time just while we while we try and figure everything out with working and I had no go from kind of small business to an actual problem like No, take that step up. But then on top of that, like my Instagram blew up. And I'm trying to like develop all these programmes to make it less like DM intensive and respond like me so much of my time to have it all there. So people could just click and be like, oh, there's information I need at their fingertips when they want it at 3am Rather than googling it, or waiting for me to reply, which is really hard at the moment. So everyone's like, get a VA and get them to answer your DMS. I just don't feel comfortable about that. Like, I don't know. I'm good.
Fiona Weaver 41:01
Yeah, I get it. I like Well, I'm happy to get a VA to do all of my other work.
Nicole Pate 41:07
I don't want them to touch my chilli, all of it. But anyway, so um, so yeah, so that's where we're at. So he's Yeah, he's, I wouldn't I don't know, if he I think he's enjoying it. I think the kids, like, obviously, like, you know, be working with kids, we kind of know what normal development looks like, I think not having seen the changes. And he's just like, Oh, my God, and like, you're so pretty normal. They wish that much. But like, it's hard when you experienced? And he's like, they just don't? Yes. And I was like, I know. I know. They don't listen. You have to look them in the eye.
Fiona Weaver 41:45
For Yeah. handle my shoulder? How has it been for your relationship? Having that role changes has helped you to understand each other's perspectives.
Nicole Pate 41:57
Yep. Because I'm coming home from work and being like, so like, work, work work all day. And it's hard work is hard work for me. Like I put lots of effort into my work and give my all and then I come home. And I'm like, I know I'm giving those my children and haven't had any moments for connection. So let's go the pockets do this. And then let's, you know, and then we have to do this. And then I probably still got to answer some emails. I've got to move away from that. But I'm trying to find that balance. Yeah, and then so I'm really appreciative of the parent that's working full time that then has to come home and still be on when you're absolutely exhausted. From your day. And yeah, he's, uh, he said to me the other day, cheese of washing just never ends, does it? Not? It doesn't let me help you fold it.
Fiona Weaver 42:42
Can I get an amen?
Nicole Pate 42:44
And so like, and it's just hard, like, yeah, it's hard. I'm not, I'm not. I'm a tidier rather than a cleaner. And I don't know like, I just don't I'm not I'm that person. Most people would say their husbands are like this that they don't see the crumbs on the breakfast bar. But that's more me home like, oh, there's crumbs in the face. So he's more able to see the crumbs. And I think he's like, look, it's been a little while but um, yeah, we'll figure it out. We will get there. We've been together for nearly 20 years, so.
Fiona Weaver 43:16
Oh, wow. Yes. A long time. Is that high school sweetheart? stuff? Yeah. Yeah. Amazing.
Nicole Pate 43:23
Yeah, yep. So since we were 15 So we'll figure it out. We just
Fiona Weaver 43:28
Dean. Wow, these these relationships. Alright, always fascinate me. Hey, like I think about who I would have ended up with. If I picked my person at 15 would not be good. Mine can obviously cook and clean. Worried about that we do that 20 years are getting to know you as a not cleaner. I
Nicole Pate 43:57
think he's like, yeah, so you know, but we didn't live together after high school until we graduated uni. So we went and he lived. We did long distance for a little while where he was in the mines and stuff. So and then FIFO. So yeah, it's different. But no, he's Yeah, love him. He's my person.
Fiona Weaver 44:17
Oh, that's good. That's good to love your husband. I met my husband on Tinder and we had an oxy about a year later or something like very different. We're still together and I still love him. But it's such a different journey.
Nicole Pate 44:33
I think I just love love stories. I love hearing I love hearing you have different people. I know me too. I love love. I know. Yeah, yeah. One of my close friends but her husband on Tinder too. So yeah, it's good.
Fiona Weaver 44:48
Yeah, it happens. I don't know if Tinder is it still a thing? Like do people use it now?
Nicole Pate 44:53
I don't think it's used in the same way as back back then. It was the same way. Yeah, I don't think gets you stuck in that way it's okay sure if helped many people would be meeting on Tinder for long term relationships anymore
Fiona Weaver 45:15
yeah, right. Okay. So where can people find you? What are you offering at the moment? A lot? It sounds like Where can people connect with you? Yeah, cool. So
Nicole Pate 45:25
um Well, not very, not very many places at the moment no. And on Instagram my handle is Nicola underscore, kids physio. And hopefully by the end of July, we will have our baby play Academy and toddler play Academy up and launched so that just instead of Google, instead of having to sift through the mountain of information, or the misinformation that's out there, you can just go on and click and be like, That's what I needed to know. I want to know about Wu sitting or I want to know about rolling or like, and the focus of both of those programmes is less on like milestones and more about what I call mini milestones so like just seeing all the little things that your babies are doing rather than waiting and focusing on the big thing and being like so it was rolling it's like Oh look they grabbed their feet oh look the reaching across the potty and you can see all these little changes if you want to or you can just have cool play ideas that are really easy. We even so with the baby play we've updated it to have like satellite so plays like the philosophy of everything that we do so connection and funding for your child but we have like a baby sign gallery so our speech pathologist Elena yeah gone through like different ways to help really fun ways to help early language development and that type of thing so baby sign which has been
Fiona Weaver 46:49
awesome yeah, it's been really fun. Yeah. A membership as well don't you? Yeah, that's
Nicole Pate 46:54
that's the memberships that are coming or just silly like flicks myself. That is. Yeah, so the baby and the toddler play membership are real. We have to we have to read all the website because I didn't I changed my mind as my web developer. Oh yeah. Yeah, we relaunched at the end of July with the baby and toddler Suit Zero to Three and then hopefully we'll have like a zero to five by the end of August or September so that would like it's just it's just all there if anyone needs. And then if you are in Perth, you can come and find us in clinic at Western KidsHealth or sometimes I think you just need a chat and work through from our chat but you just need to work through things with someone that you trust in terms of that motor development stuff. So I have like a telehealth options for parents to or caregivers to just work through, like what's going on and what what support you need. And if there's anyone local in your area that can support you or different things like that.
Fiona Weaver 47:54
Well that all sounds amazing. I love your work. Thank you so much for chatting with us today. And I know that people are going to evil will find this chat very wholesome and relatable. So thank you so much for talking with us today.
Nicole Pate 48:07
Good, thanks. Thanks for having me.
Fiona Weaver 48:10
Thank you so much for listening to mama chatters if you enjoyed this episode. Let's continue the conversation on Instagram at MAMA matters.au. Be sure to share this app with your family and friends. And don't forget if you liked it, please leave a rating and review wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you again and I will see you next time.
